in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

Blueshoes So Sunshine's mother never slept?

Looking after DC all day, working all night??

I'll say it again. WHAT A WOMAN!!!

Sunshine If you truly believe that adult chat lines are a perfectly reasonable way to earn a living, why oh why didn't you want to be recognised?

That's right, thesecondcoming, madonna mothers cannot be doing anything filthy like paying their own way.

sparkle, I cannot answer for sunshine as to when her mother caught up on sleep. You are determined to see negatives in sunshine's situation.

sparklefrog - we were at school for most of the years so she slept whilst we were there.

When she did have kids at home she slept round the nap of my sister for 2 hours and then survived until we all went bed at 7. She only used to sleep a couple of hours in the day. The rest she would just make up that night and she never did 2 nights in a row so she didnt get to tired. She was only in her 20s so staying up all night wasnt that hard if you get a couple in the day the day of the shift and the day after.

...but my point sunshine which you seem to have missed is that people are NOT getting rehoused with more children - you appear to be thinking that they ask and get these bigger houses. They may ask but they certainly do not get them. I have just been embroiled in a massive complaint to our local council who left a family with three children (one set of twins who were a surprise pregnancy) in a one bedroom upper floor flat full of damp and mold. I not only complained to the council but took photos and placed them in the children's medical records because as far as I could see the 5 month old twins (now a year old) with a still developing immune system were being set up for a childhood full of respiratory illnesses - they had constant chest infections from breathing in mold spores everytime they took a breath in. This family have JUST moved to a three bedroom house which they are renting privately with the help of a family member who stumped up the deposit. Had they not accepted this I have no doubt they would still be in their crappy accommodation.This has been after months and months of letters back and forth between them, me and the council. Social housing isn't all brand new and gorgeous - some of it is utterly unfit for habitation from a health point of view.

You cannot make generalized and sweeping comments about how these people should not expect to be housed or re-housed. It HAS to be considered case by case to ensure the most needy get priority and in the case above you can see how long that takes for some in crowded areas.

You have a strong work ethic - good for you but so do plenty of other people who apply for jobs along with many others. Just because they choose not to sit on adult chat lines does not make them lazy or feckless. I was sexually abused as a child and believe me I would rather sit on benefits than chat to the inadequate little man of the type who abused me. If you can do it then great but it wouldn't be for me or many others.

Sparkle/Riven Who is saying that unemployed people should become sex workers or walk the streets or that they should be forced to do so? All I am saying is that lots of jobs that may seem great can be unbearable and if someone is happy to work on a chat line to provide for their family then respect to them.

Blueshoes agree with your post

'Sunshine If you truly believe that adult chat lines are a perfectly reasonable way to earn a living, why oh why didn't you want to be recognised? '

because of attitudes like yours and I need to be always able to get work anywhere in order to keep myself afloat if I need to but riven it wouldnt be like that in many places now there are childminders, after school clubs etc. There are more options to work from home, people can apply for flexible working, shorter shifts, you get funding to go to college if you are on certain benefits, you get money for uni if you are on low income. You can

'why all the focus on women? Where are the fathers? Why aren't they working to pay for their children, after all, they are not doing the full time job of childcare too?'

If the fathers dont provide when they are physically able then they are deadbeats and to me the same applies to mothers. Why should it be different? Things have changed even married/co-habiting couples cant survive on one income you have to do stuff you dont want to do. Its the way it is.

the second coming - thank you for your concern but the reason why I had to as I only had student loan to keep me afloat which wasnt very much and was soon coming to an end. I needed to work as I didnt have enough maternity pay to cover my outgoings and I couldnt apply for HB as I own the flat. I had to do it to make money to keep going for that summer/autumn.

also second coming - i never did it whilst my child was awake/in the room obviously.

If they are happy to do so Mingg then yes - respect but plenty of us could NOT do it and if it came to unemployment I would rather claim benefits than do this kind of work.

Removing some benefits will be a slow descent for some into unbearable poverty. On a low wage I do not use my heating (storage heaters) in winter as the cost is just too great. I know many others who do the same and many of my families who are living on the breadline (both working families and non-working families). Those with plasma TVs etc eother get them off catalogues or are doing work on the side/cash in hand which is not declared.

Only read the tail end of this and am surprised that there are so many advocating sex work.

I thought you might all be pleased with the following

At the moment it is legal to advertise sex work of certain types in the jobcentre

There will be moves to say that people are not allowed to refuse any work if they are on benefits

Thus a young woman on benefits will be told that she either has to do sex work, or lose her benefits.

This young woman may not even have had sex yet, she may be a lesbian, she may have been abused. Yet she will be forced to work to service teh sexual needs of men, or lose her benefits.

It's a lovely warm and fuzzy feeling, isn't it.

Mind the language, thesecondcoming, or you might find yourself more suited for certain lines of work than you think.

I happen to think adultchat is the middleground between benefits and sex work. I don't even classify it as sex work, as I said many times. I will consider it and keep an open mind as to what sunshine says.

It goes without saying it is not for everyone. It certainly does not need the inflammatory imagery you devised. Which sunshine has already explained is not true in her case.

Thejollypirate - its very different here. Everyone is in private rents you get to pick any house/flat that you want in the price range the LA gives you. Mostly new build Barratt homes, 3 bed done up semis, all the mod cons such as a garden, new kitchen, bathroom. My uncle has 4 bed, heated towel rails, front and back garden, garage, new kitchen, carpets. Has only been there a year full deposit paid by HB and rent. He has not worked since he was 16. His wife has never worked either.

Ex social housing places are up for sale starting at 160k there are none to give out and my friends mum and dad bought theirs for 16k of the council and have now ended up making over 100k not bad going for spending your life doing practically nothing. I know of 4 young couples who live in their own places a one bed (family of three), a one bed (family of 3), a family of 4 (2 bed) and us. Why should we live like this when others get a real house for free?

I have rising damp who is coming to fix it? No one we just swapped rooms and keep the windows open. My husband paints once a month to cover it and we use those damp traps. (I have 6 in the kids room alone). I have a dehumidifier as well but its really expensive to run. A lot of my friends flats have damp there is a lot of it round here by the sea. I dont begrudge that family moving as I know what its like but the surestart maternity grant round here is known as the new pushchair grant. All the young mums have bugaboos from it. Things will change and its about time they do.

No one is asking you to be a prostitute, thesecondcoming. You are deliberately conflating concepts.

What do people think about teh fact that it looks like women will be forced into tyhis type of work?

A good thing?

Well rather than eat at mcdonalds 3-4 times a week, going on holiday etc maybe put the money towards getting the damp sorted?!

Even if you privately rent, repairs are done by the landlord.

To be honest, the only reason I can see for owning a house or flat of my own would be to leave to my children once I have died.

Renting is, as far as I am concerned, a win-win situation. You get a home that you can treat as your own, without the hassle of maintaining the building.

That said, we have done a lot to the social houses we have lived it, both decorating and carpets etc etc. Carpets are not included in social housing as the norm, unless left by outgoing tenants.

My social housing house isnt great here.... the porch is rotten, damp and mouldy. The back hall ceiling is falling down. The bathroom is the original one put in when the houses were built in 1950 and is disgusting due to lack of care by previous tenants, the kitchen units are falling apart.... yet to make this my home I have had the whole place re-carpeted (thanks to money given to me by my grandmother, NOT benefits) and am in the process of picking colours to paint over the existing wallpaper as we cannot afford to do anything else.

I still stand by my comments of earlier with respect to sex lines. I would rather be on the streets starving than work a sex line.

If I worked on a sex line I think it would ruin my self esteem, ruin my (already fairly low) opinion of a lot of men, make me fearful for my daughters, and (possibly most importantly) ruin my relationship with my husband.

I have no problem with people diong this work if they choose to, but to say it is the same as, what, working in a shop or something is just bollocks. It is sex work.

I ask again, what do people think of the idea that women will very possibly be forced into this type of work?

'What do people think about the fact that it looks like women will be forced into this type of work?

A good thing? '

I dont know really I was forced in to it as I had bills to pay and was pregnant. My best friend does it to and one of my friends mums. It pays the bills.

secondcoming - I dont see anything wrong with strippers or strip clubs either. There are always going to be people that dispute it. There are people who would get divorced if their husband watched a porn video for gods sake so that doesnt mean they are not overeacting immensely.

Danjarmouse - As I said I go on 2 £9.50 sun holidays doubt that £19 i going to fix my damp problem? The mcdonalds thing you got from the other thread and as I said I use vouchers for £1.99 or my mates employees card (they get free dinner for them and me). It is expensive to fix and we have tried a lot of things but they havent really worked, think the best option is just to manage the damp and stop it from progressing.