to think someone should at least have had a quiet word with this parent?

[TheFatOwlOfTheRemove]

I work in a preschool and one of the little boys is autistic (diagnosed, statement being finalised)

he can be quite disruptive sometimes and noisy, although he is an awful lot better than he used to be. He's not aggressive though, or not that I have seen in the 1.5 years he's been at nursery - I don't know how he is at home, I know my children were spookily different at home.

his mum has a fairly new partner, I know nothing about him really except that he's quite recent - not my job to pry into people's personal lives, but we do become aware of people's general circumstances, especially if the child has SN, it's inevitable to some extent

anyway we were sitting in circle time (the little boy was on his 1-2-1 worker's lap and was calm and listening well - when it came to his turn to reply to "how are you today" he looked upset and said "XX (new partner) smacked my bum and it hurt me"

I know there's a good chance I will get chargrilled for this, and I know it's not illegal to smack, etc etc, but is it really OK for a parent's recently acquired partner to smack a 4yo with SN?

I felt really sad about it but didn't feel I could say anything as I am neither his keyworker nor his 1-2-1 worker. Nobody did say anything to his mum though, and I wondered whether somebody ought to have done. AIBU?

did you speak to either hi key worker or 1-2-1 worker about it? to see what tehy think?

I would have said something to the mum. But I am not an educational professional, and don't know what the protocol is. However, I don't think I could not. The mum might not know, or she might be glad of the opprtunity to talk about it. Did you talk to his keyworker about it?

The pre school must surely have strategies in place to deal with situations like this. I would see what those strategies are first.

No, because they were both there at the time and it would have been quite rude of me to say anything to them about it

I advocate like a monster for the children I AM responsible for, but I can't really do much when somebody else is responsible and they are present at the time

You need to talk to your boss and find a way to tell the child's mother.

What did you say when he said it?

erm.....i would mention it to who ever deals with child protection just in case but as the mum of a ds with aspergers and from working as an ssa i know that what asd children say isnt always a true reflection of what actually happened... example... my ds went to school, told the teacher that he was hungry and i hadnt made him any breakfast... what actually happened was we ran out of his usual cereal and he refused anything else!

wrt your question i dont think YABU. someone should eb speaking to teh parent about this.

I didn't say anything Fab, I was sitting in the circle dealing with another very challenging child, he was with his 1-2-1 and the keyworker was leading the session

it really wouldn't have been appropriate for me to say anything

aggh, i cant spell today.

yes but I can see how to a child with ASD (I have one too) that meant he hadn't had any breakfast, so not much difference

but this child said quite plainly "X smacked my bum and it hurt", he made the motion with his hand and he was visibly upset

hard to put across in writing, but I believed him, more so because he has ASD and is very literal-minded

I would say this is noted on his file by his keyworker. These comments are usually noted in my experience. Perhaps enquire with his Key worker or the Manager about this. I wouldn't say anything directly to his mother though.

if it had been written down/noted officially, it would have been raised at the weekly children's meeting so that all staff could be vigilant

it wasn't, so I think they have let it go

i mean that he could have read the situation wrong... i play fight with (14 month)dd and pat her on the bottom, especially if her bottom is bare and she runs away giggling... to ds that could be smacking to dd its a game....

If you feel it has been overlooked then raise it with the CPO, Keyworker or Manager or whoever is recommended in the policy file. I think you are right to ensure this isn't dismissed.

so nobody thinks "oh mind your own bloody business, it's not illegal" then?

OK, I will talk to the keyworker

thanks

The trouble with speaking to the mother directly is that she may simply remove the child from the nursery.

I agree with biddysmama, what is said isn't always a true reflection of what actually happened.

I have a 6.5 yo with Autism & he often repeats a lot of what he has either overheard or seen on TV, sometimes in bits and pieces. For example, our cat went missing & our neighbour found her dead in her garden with no obvious signs of what had happened to her. My husband & I were discussing the possibilities & mentioned that maybe she had been hit by a car & crawled off to die somewhere. Next thing we know DS1 has told my Mum that "Tilly's died & gone to heaven. She was hitted on a car".

Also, DS1 has over the past year or so started smacking us when he becomes angry. We tell him it's not nice to smack as it hurts mummy & daddy. He will often say "Want Mummy/Daddy to smack J. Want to hurt. J wants to smack Mummy/Daddy". This doesn't mean we have actually smacked him, just that he's repeating bits of what he's heard.

surely if a child was saying this about a PARENT you would at least log it, see if there was a repeat etc, make the right calls re: child protection if necessary.

how is it any different just cos its a new partner

I think someone should say something - it is possible the mother left her partner to bring the child to school and does not know what happened. if the child has said anything at home he could have laughed it off/denied it etc

I do think this is something you should discuss with this little boy's keyworker though OP. Incase she didn't hear him say it or the 1-2-1 has not mentioned it to her. It should definitely be logged.

It's then her decision as to whether to mention it to mum or see if there was a repeat in the future.

Difficult one for you though.

If you're worried, maybe you could say to the mum that her son was a bit upset and talking about being smacked on the bottom, and you'd like to know if there's anything you can do to help him understand what's going on? That wouldn't sound too confrontational and then if she isn't aware that it happened, she'll surely let you know.

LittleRed I really can't approach his mum because he isn't one of "my" children, he has his own 1-2-1 worker and a teacher who is his keyworker

I feel rotten for not saying something at the time now.

I thought most people on MN would say "mind your own business"

(I mean, if she says something like, 'Yes, he has been running into the road and we cannot explain to him that this is dangerous, we are trying this', you might not agree with her methods but at least you'd be able to reinforce the 'roads are dangerous' message to the child.)

actually I think talking about this from a child protection pov is completely ott.

Whether you agree with it or not, smacking is not an illegal form of discipline, and whether you agree with it or not, lots of parents do allow their partners to discipline their children esp if they're trying to show a united front.

Obviously we don't know the extent of this child's disability, nor do we know the level of his understanding re right and wrong etc, but the fact he has ASD does not mean he shouldn't be disciplined, it's possible that the discipline needs to be taylored according to his disability, but the parent will most likely have an understanding of that anyway, especially if he already has a diagnosis and a 1-1 worker.

Ask yourself this - if the child did not have ASD would you be considering speaking to the parents?

If you think that this child is being abused then you need to follow the normal child protection guidelines according to your nursery's child protection policy and have this child referred through the correct channels.

If you don't think he's at risk then you need to mind your own business IMO.

If the child is open enough to mention that he'd been smacked in front of you/other teachers, then it's likely he'll mention it to his mum too if she was unaware.

Regardless of personal opinion, smacking isn't considered child abuse.

Definitely speak to the child protection person. It may be something or nothing, but it is for them to decide - this may be the one piece in the jigsaw they are looking for whether the child has sn or not!