to think that there is a witch hunt against Andrew Wakefield?

[MagalyZz]

I just can't believe that they're still gunning for this guy!?

Whatever you make of his research, it WAS his research and he found what he found and he should be allowed to "suggest a link"

I have a child on the spectrum who had the MMR and I do not think the MMR had anything to do with it, but I do believe Dr Wakefield that a tiny percentage of people do react very badly to this vaccine.

Leave the guy alone ffs!!

Linden - No, actually, it is not better that all babies are vaccinated against rubella (boys as well as girls) for the off-hand chance that some non-immune woman catch it while pregnant.

What is better would be a screening program aimed at, say, 11 year old girls, vaccinating those who are not already immune.

As for vaccinating DD younger than 17 - no daughter of mine will be dumb enough to (1) fall pregnant at 16, and (2) decide to carry baby to term. (Sorry to offend those who have done both at that or younger age, but this is my honest opinion)

"Yes, i've just written to my MP about singles. I used the writetothem.com website.

When vaccines become compulsory in the UK, we will pack up and go home to the USA (and fill in endless forms exempting my kids on religious/philosophical grounds). The MASSIVE human rights violation in FORCING vaccination will make the UK intolerable (and no more civilised than nasty third world dictatorships) "

I assume you included the latter in your email, Leonie? writetothem.com says it is for UK citizens.

There are many more serious human rights violations that already take place in the UK.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this Cote although I would probably agree if a screening program was put in place and a further check was done afterwards to catch any still without immunity - you would also need to have a policy of informing any woman who visited the UK to have had a rubella vaccination as well as advising the same to anyone who chooses to migrate/emigrate.

Coalition. I am a little puzzled. Are you seriously suggesting that I go and get dd2 jabbed? On what basis are you recommending that a child with suspected mitochondrial dysfunction is vaccinated? Most vaccines ate contra indicated. But thank you for your attempt to solve whatthas been am issue for the last 3 years. That solution had never occurred to me

Honestly, do you think she is unvaccinated on a mere whim?

I notice a lot of people are stting that singles uptake is low, but not providing evidence for that.

As to whoever "flicked" through the gmc judgment. I suggest you do mpre than that, and try to paybaside any preconceived notions you have about wakefield/the case before yyou do so. The biggewt.problem with the whole.situation ispeople "flicking through stuff". A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and all that (especially when it is based on misrepresentation and lies)

Linden - Surely, all that is less work that vaccinating an entire half of the population unnecessarily. Twice!

If government put the money spent on MMR and its publicity to Rubella immunity awareness, I'm guessing that girls and their parents would take charge of knowing whether or not they are immune before they are of childbearing age. Put a warning on every tampon box, test immunity at first smear test, whatever. Just don't unnecessarily vaccinate the entire population while babies, for a disease so mild that most of the time it passes unnoticed.

silverfrog - I'm sorry I thought you were advocating the single vaccines as safer than the MMR in which case you would have a choice.

I'm puzzled by the claim that Brian Deer is a 'whackjob journalist'. He's worked for the Guardian and Sunday Times, probably the two best papers for investigative journalism in the UK. He's also got a track record in exposing shennanigans by pharmaceutical companies (the Paraxel drug trial disaster for example, or Merck covering up the serious side effects of Vioxx). He's hardly a shill for Big Pharma.

Yes, he's a crusading journo, which isn't a bad thing. His work exposing a fake-Aids vaccine a few years ago led to the prosecution of the pharmaceutical company involved and probably saved lives. Wakefield issued libel proceedings against Deer and Channel 4 in 2007, but dropped his action once Deer made it clear he'd defend any action. Wakefield's costs were being met by the Medical Protection Society, so there wasn't a personal financial cost to him in proceeding.

Straight question: Given Deer's track record, what reason would he have for going after Wakefield, other than to expose wrongdoing?

CoteCAzur - that's one mahoosive hostage to fortune you just created there...;)

As it happens I do think singles ate more sensible, just not foot my dd

And sorry for the sarcasm. Said dd was doing a great line in wind up at the time of writing thatpost...

Silverfrog, funny that you chose to refer to my 'flicking through' the GMC judgement while completely ignoring the fact that I copied and pasted a section which showed that your claim that the GMC had no issue with the birthday party incident to be bullshit.

And if I can uncover that discrepancy between your claims and the truth on the quickest of skim-throughs, who knows what rubbish of yours might be revealed on a closer reading.

Oh I quite enjoy sarcasm ;)

Cote you may be right on that - and I like your solution!

Wow, agreement on MN. It must be a cold day in hell

This whole issue is very complex and unfortunately surrounded by much misinformation.

I would urge anyone who think they know better than Dr Wakefield what is going on with the (thousands, not just 12) children he has examined to watch the following conference presentations given by him at the Autism One conference.

This first one is an hour long and explains what Wakefield's findings actually are.

www.autismone.org/content/resolving-chaotic-paradox-autism-disease-developing-immune-system

This second one is also nearly an hour and looks at the GMC trial and the controversy surrounding it. (Given before the decision).

www.autismone.org/content/andrew-wakefield-md

Try to have an open mind and put aside the image of moneyhungrycrazeddoctorexperiementsonkidsandparentsdon'tnotice (and neither do a whole research team).

Wakefield was considered one the leading gastrointestinal researchers in the UK until he found a potential problem with a vaccine.

Professor Walker Smith who has also been struck off by the GMC is considered the grandfather of paediatric gastroenterology and one of the most eminent scientists in the UK. The idea that he would act unethically is frankly laughable.

noblegiraffe. the C&P you did is open to interpretation on a number of issues. that is why I suggested you read the whole thing, not just skim it.

Unfortunately, due to internet restrictions, I am connecting form my phone. I am thus unable to currently re-read the judgement, and similarly C&P.

however, i well remember talking about this very point at the beginning of the year. I stand by my coments.

And please do try to pick holes in the rest of my post too.

The misdirection contained in "I have found a paragraph which upon reading seems to contradict one of your points, therefore your whole post is rubbish" is quite staggering, tbh. and arrogant.

please do some research on the whole thing (horough research, not just skim reading ), and maybe watch the links Beachcomber has provided. They really do make interesting viewing.

Hi silverfrog - I have a lot of work stuff on at the moment.

DD is ok. She was doing very well but we have had a couple of setbacks recently.

I hope people who have very strong opinions about Dr Wakefield do watch the videos - the science in the first one is immensely interesting. Wakefield's science has never been shown to be incorrect and much of it has been replicated in other countries. Why people continue to claim that the science has been 'discredited' and never replicated, I fail to understand.

It is so blindingly obvious that the GMC have had to scrabble around to find some technicalities to try to trash these doctor's reputations as the medical establishment knows the science is solid and these damaged children exist.

Somebody asked further up the thread if damages have ever been paid for a vaccine/autism case. The answer is yes but we don't know how many as most have them have been settled secretly out of court. A dozen or so have been settled through court the public has access to transcripts for in the US. The most recent and well known are the cases of Hannah Poling and Bailey Banks.

There are currently about 5000 autism/vaccine cases waiting in the Omnibus Proceedings. There were about 2000 cases waiting to be heard in the UK until they got there Legal Aid pulled by a judge with connections to the vaccine manufacturers being sued. There is a lot of murky stuff going on here.

Deer might be an unpleasant person, but that's not the issue here. He's quite openly stated he's pursued Wakefield for years as he believes he's dishonest. The GMC has now agreed. Given Deer's track record of exposing corruption by drug companies he's happy to put the boot into the other side as well. Is there any evidence at all Deer has a hidden agenda?

"leave him alone, ffs!?

He was unprofessional and appallingly unethical at every turn and has been thoroughly discredited by the medical establishment, his peers. He may have been indirectly responsible for children dying of measles or being very damaged by its side effects, because of the uncertainty he sowed about MMR. There is no credible research that says that he was right in any way. I'm glad he was struck off and he's caused a hell of a lot of damage.