.. to think private primary schools offer a bad deal to families?

[kif]

This is really confusing me - and I don;t want to hurt feeling in RL by raising this with the people I know.

Private schools at primary level: by and large they offer a bit of a rubbish deal, don't they?

I'm just completely bemused why people persevere with them.

I hear about:

• zero to no outside space (busses to local parks) - compared to fab imaginative playgrounds at local state schools. Presumably it's required by law of a state school, but not of a private school.

• Substantial commutes to school. Who needs the extra stress? What's nicer than walking to school breathing fresh air?

• No school dinners in some cases - I find this pretty shocking tbh. Good communal eating is so important.

• Heavy homework demands on top of a long school day - leading to stress between parents and kids as they try to achieve it

and the complete killer:

• 'We'd love another baby, but we couldn't afford another set of school fees' .

hmmm having used both private and public schools for my children I can say without a doubt that if our finances allowed it I would not think twice about returning to a private enviroment taking OP's points 1 by 1

I hear about:

• zero to no outside space (busses to local parks) - compared to fab imaginative playgrounds at local state schools. Presumably it's required by law of a state school, but not of a private school.

the schools I have dealt with have had amble outside space and spend much more time out in those spaces than the public schools have ever done. if it is a school in the city then they often do not have much in form of open space either so it would depend upon where people are living to evalutate this. when I many years ago lived in Hammersmith there was a public school down the road it had 1 cemented playground no green areas..

• Substantial commutes to school. Who needs the extra stress? What's nicer than walking to school breathing fresh air?

Some people has this with public schools my dd travels for 30 misn each day to get to one of the closest 2nd schools we have. my children still in primary goes to a school in the country due to the roads it would be downright dangerous to walk hence they are on the school bus and other children are driven.

• No school dinners in some cases - I find this pretty shocking tbh. Good communal eating is so important.

I have never come across this in private school (dealt with 3) in the cases of the schools I am familiar with (2 as a parent 1 as a carer for a child) the school dinners were of much higher standards than what I have ever seen in the public system.

• Heavy homework demands on top of a long school day - leading to stress between parents and kids as they try to achieve it

the homework at primary school level have been no difference between the schools I have experience of.

and the complete killer:

• 'We'd love another baby, but we couldn't afford another set of school fees' hmm .

That is a lifestyle choice may be one you wouldnt make but that is up to each induvidual. You could claim it goes against private school but what it really goes against is that set of parents ideas of what sort of lifestyle they wish to have. again a lifestyle choice. (also it is easy to blame school fees as it sounds better than actually I never wanted more than 1 )

as I said above if given the option again I would with no shadow of a dobut move to private system again I wouldnt think twice. I would give you some examples in return about public schools

• old materials that have seen better days without any hope of them improving

• the obsessive collecting by the PTA (doesnt happen in private schools you pay a fee you dont get asked to add to maintainence)

• the huge number of children in the classes with very few teachers (my son spend his reception year in a class of 6 boys 1 full time teacher 1 part time he thrived and loved school)

• the inabillity to be flexible with weather (my oldest was kept inside during a rare snow day in 2006 she was in the local school - dd2 and ds in the private school got to spend the day in the snow had hot chocolate by the dinner ladies and generally had such an amazing day they still now years later recall it

• the school dinners in all the private schools Ive dealt with it has been freshly cooked with sensible options and time to eat it and that leads me to the next point

• the microscopical time we expect children to eat lunch in

LOL Pagwach.

My 'friend' bought a pair of shoes last week. They made her heel bleed and she says her husband says they make her look like Daffy Duck.
Honestly, people who buy shoes are so stupid.

If you make wise career decisions then you can earn enough even to pay 5 ests of school fees as I've done! Plenty of women do that but if you just work in a shop or choose nursing rather than being a leading surgeon then it's harder to haev lots of chidlren and pay schools fees unless you've married someone well off who will pay.

Our children haev been at various schools and they always had a good school lunch. Someone mentioned 4 - 18 as an issue. I didn't find it with my girls (who are both at or beyond university stage now) - one was at Habs and the other North London C. At 11 masses of new children come in from the state sector, you're in a different building and mixed into new classes. It feels like a change of school . I don't think they get stale for that reason. I wouldn't let that put anyone off.

l would also add that I chose private schooling for my dd2 because the local primary school would not aid her with her dyslexia she entered the private system unable to read she left the school 6 terms later not only able to read but confident in her abilities and a happy child gone where the misrable little girl whom tried any way possible to not go to school.

I am however intelligent enough to not state that ALL state owned schools would be like that one we encountered. In my experience however if the school is high up on the leage tables they are really not interested in a child that will drag their precious league table down. The private system are willing to take the extra time and in my daughers case it made all the difference

Surely ridiculous to generalise in either direction. I am sure there are substandard private schools - the "its private it must be superior" attitude grates. Also cuts the other way. The situation that enrages me is my lovely friend who lives in an area of London where there is a black hole and 70 odd children do not have a state school place. She is having to shell out for a deeply average private school nearby despite really wanting to use the state system in which her and her DH were educated and both now extremely successful (and wealthy Xenia fyi). That really is shocking.

OP YABVU

The private school we moved DS to had acres of beautiful grounds, with proper tennis courts and proper football pitch etc etc, a swimming pool, woods...

Yes we had a long commute to school, but we couldn't walk to the state school he was at before because our local ones were terrible.

Proper meals cooked on the premises by chefs, eaten with teachers

Prep done at school between end of normal school day and pick up, allowing evenings to be for playing, relaxing, watching TV, and making it not our fight.

Specialist teachers for sport (Hockey master was on the England squad), science, French, music. A school orchestra and choir that actually sounded like an orchestra and choir. Competitive sports and House points.

Small classes, all doing the same thing at the same time. DS has ADHD and couldn't cope with the noise and movement in a normal primary classroom.

Best of all the ability to drop off at 8am and pick up at 6pm, so you can fit in a full day at work.

dd's private primary is attached to her nursery so she has been there since 7 months and knows all the teachers. The school carries on until 18 so great continuity of care. DD plays with all different ages and the older ones are asked to mentor the younger.

It is an 8 minute drive from our house.

Her class size is 12 with one teacher and one TA - TA has MA plus is qualified librarian.

Provides wrap around care.

Lovely family type environment.

Massive playing grounds plus indoor swimming pool.

Not for snobbery reasons, its not a 'posh' school, no-one in our year has horses, most live in 'normal' £150k - £200k houses, have one old banger, both parents work etc.

I went to comp as did all my family until mine and my brother's DC. The schools near me are all failing.

Lots of families there are 'only' having one child so they can afford the school fees, that's because most are 'normal' eg teachers / sky installers / architect / marketing / plasterer so not reams of cash. Surely that is their choice though?

Another reason for me is that we recently had a problem with one child and weren't happy with the first response from the teacher. We have now been in and sorted it with said teacher and the thought that, if it didn't get resolved we could move elsewhere, was actually a great comfort.

Those are my reasons, can only speak for myself obviously.

MrsR - you know, as does everyone else on the thread, that you are being passive aggressive and really quite nasty, there is simply no need. HTH

Message withdrawn

I* zero to no outside space (busses to local parks) - compared to fab imaginative playgrounds at local state schools. Presumably it's required by law of a state school, but not of a private school. There are gardens in the local preps schools in thsi area - they don't need so much space though as they don't have as many children

• Substantial commutes to school. Who needs the extra stress? What's nicer than walking to school breathing fresh air? There are so many cars outside the three primary schools I have to drive near at 8.45 in the morning so I guess a lot of state primary school children arrive by car and don't walk

• No school dinners in some cases - I find this pretty shocking tbh. Good communal eating is so important. There are a lot of primary school children having packed lunches and sitting communaly just as packed lunch can be eaten sat around a table at private primary

• Heavy homework demands on top of a long school day - leading to stress between parents and kids as they try to achieve it. My cousin did her ds's homework with hima nd for him and somtimes the nanny did it with him and for him aswell - he did still get 9 A's at gsce so not a hugh amount of damage there then

and the complete killer:

• 'We'd love another baby, but we couldn't afford another set of school fees'

depends how much your earn - a lot of middle class can't afford more than two sets of fees - but there are plenty that can afford 4 or 5 and some grandparents that cough up for 6 grandchildren

I will add I have been extremly happy with my local primary and junior school and have had no desire or money to move to prep school, cos I am a low earner, but I certainly don't feel mine have missed out to much it is a differnt education

It is easy to see what you are paying for at beautiful prep schools with brilliant academic records but less so at small London schools with minimal indoor and outdoor space and lesser academic achievements
I suppose the short answer is small class sizes. Also assume that parents who can be bothered to fork out for their children's education must have some interest in it. (Not that parents who wouldn't dream of forking out don't have an interest obviously)
Our own experience just in case anyone reading this is wondering about private vs state for primary.
We have had a really good experience with DS at the local primary. He is reading, writing, has made loads of friends and loves going in even though he is the third youngest in the school of 270 ish (late August birthday)
We did however get seduced by look around the local preps.
All the prep schools around here are in lovely old buildings with acres of land/art rooms/theatres /science labs etc. In the end we decided against them (although I admit to occasional pangs) because:

1. single sex (we also have a DD)
2. distance (for us state school a walk preps not)
3. money-although we could afford it it would mean scrimping and saving and worrying
4. DS is young for his year, geeky, completely lovely but a bit random and totally unsporty so we figured he might not react well to the structured environment of the preps near us (blazers/rugger/Sir etc) We will probably still consider private secondary though so am no class warrior.

horses for courses op
omparing schools around here one has high results, takes kids swimming weekly, plays sport on the local huge common and about 8 different after school clubs the other has no clubs goes to the common accross the road once a year, average results, and does the minimum for swimming (? 2 terms).

both have small concrete playgrounds

you can guess which is which

incidentally local state schools are rarely seen on the huge local common the private schools have no hesitation in walking over the road stopping the traffic in the process and roping off large portions of common for sports daily.

I mean no hesitation i have been feeding small children and had the teacher lead the kids over to where i was sitting to start a game of rounders or similar.

I was obviously unwittingly on 'their' patch!

My DD will have 33 in her class next year, ans has a small square of concrete to play on. She is in a state school.

But obviously she is getting what she deserves, eh?

Mind you she will be getting a Brand spanking new school building in 2011 and spend a day in the park learning each week. So it ain't all bad.

It's hard to read about massive acreage swimming pools, 4'nice children to a class etc though.

Suppose it's my fault for choosing to spend my disposable income in Greggs.

Would also add that there isn't much to celebrate in the state school system looking at the substantial cuts the Tories are likely to make

Tory cuts only a result of labour profligacy!!

Daysofthewek

I suppose DD should suck it up then.

It's a silly op really. Most people pay for private primary because thy prefer their child to be in the private system.

bonsoir
I am in France too and yet 14 euros per day seems very steep indeed. Is that figure right? Are your DC in an international school or sous contrat?

I am fascinated by £12 a day for school lunches as well.

School dinners in UK are costed at a few pence per head I think.

My poshest take-away lunch at work doesn;t cost that!

EUR 14 per day is if you buy individual tickets; if you sign up to the canteen every day and pay in advance it works out as EUR 11 per day. I think it's horrendously overpriced! But other private schools (sous contrat) in Paris charge almost as much for the canteen.

My DD goes to a private school, it offers the following:

Fantastic, rounded curriculum, on top of normal studies she does, tennis, ballet, tap, music lessons, swimming, languages, cookery etc.
Excellent school meals
Amazing facilities such as indoor heated swimming pool for all year use, playing fields, dedicated ICT suites, dedicated sports hall, dedicated teaching kitchen, a full time nurse who in the past has given DD the once over and told me whether her sore throat needed a visit to doctors.
Fabulous location, over looking a beach and right next to open countryside.
Dedicated teaching staff for various areas such as ICT, music, sports, dance etc
2 teachers to a class of 16 pupils

I could go on...

I have not sent her there as I think she may be harmed mixing with the hoi polloi, in fact my other half and I are very much from an 'hoi polloi' background, but we do want the best for her and no state school near us came even close in any area to her current school. In fact she is at school with children of teachers which I guess says a lot about our local education! And there is no snobbery at the school, no-one cares about your back ground.

I'm glad school fees put people off having kids they can't afford, maybe if people all people were charged to send their kids to school it might put a stop to the benefit culture to some extent!

I feel really offended at some of the comments on here. Why do people feel its OK to attack people who send their children to private school? Can you imagine the uproar were I to post a thread saying that anyone who sends their child to state school isn't providing the best for their child given what I've seen of them in my area. But we're not allowed to do that are we? No, it's only OK for people to attack the middle classes, God forbid they should respond in kind.

My kids are at a state (faith) school but I find the OP naive/offensive...

The people I know who sent to a private primary school did so because of one of the following:

• it was nearer to their house
• they didn't get a place at the good local state school
• smaller school and smaller class sizes
• excellent extra curricular activities & facilities
• feeder into the secondary school they want
• they felt their child wasn't being challenged in state system whereby focus has to be on weakest children to maintain SAT scores rather than pushing brighter ones

And not all state schools provide school meals, my friend have kids at a state school were there is no school lunches its packed only. Not all state schools have good grounds / facilities. And many state schools give lots of homework.

you paint a very skewed,negative picture.vinegar with that chip?