.. to think private primary schools offer a bad deal to families?

[kif]

This is really confusing me - and I don;t want to hurt feeling in RL by raising this with the people I know.

Private schools at primary level: by and large they offer a bit of a rubbish deal, don't they?

I'm just completely bemused why people persevere with them.

I hear about:

• zero to no outside space (busses to local parks) - compared to fab imaginative playgrounds at local state schools. Presumably it's required by law of a state school, but not of a private school.

• Substantial commutes to school. Who needs the extra stress? What's nicer than walking to school breathing fresh air?

• No school dinners in some cases - I find this pretty shocking tbh. Good communal eating is so important.

• Heavy homework demands on top of a long school day - leading to stress between parents and kids as they try to achieve it

and the complete killer:

• 'We'd love another baby, but we couldn't afford another set of school fees' .

kif

Have you put these points (kindly) to your friends who use these schools to get their take on it? it's always hard to second-guess other peoples motivations.

If you ask them about the commute and why they do it and the play area and so on, I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you their thoughts.

It may be that these schools offer things that are not obvious IYSWIM. Let's face it, it's unlikely that people will be spending £££ for a school crappier than free ones. Is the state school that you are comparing it to very oversubscribed? Is it a case that they are paying £££ as they wouldn't have had a hope of getting into the state school, and the ones they would have got into were not so good IYSWIM.

I don't know about private schools (ok, I am about to send DS1 private for Yr6, but that's a long story, and is a pretty desperate measure on my part).

My thought is about people opting for little village schools rather than the town schools. Because standards are so much lower in the town, "I wouldn't possibly send my children there", etc. attitudes.

Neighbour moved her DC from little village school to local private school, and was gushing how great it is. Like she doesn't have to pay for swim lessons now! (My DC at big town school get swim lessons from Yr1). And now they get French lessons (DC are learning Spanish and French at school). And this and that and the other thing they can do at the private school but was not possible at the wee village school -- all of which are possible at DC big town school, hahaha... am I allowed just one wee little smirk?!

Most British parents wouldn't pay £12 a day for school lunches, even if they were 16 courses, I don't think.

My friends say:

• They want their child to go private for secondary, and they feel it's unfair to spring 11+ cramming on them. The private primary prepares them for a smoother transition.
• Their DH outright refuses to have their child sent state
• They need the wraparound childcare
• They started at the private nursery, and just carried on
• (not so local to me) only faith state schools any good, and they don;t want to play the hypocrisy game (I can't comment, as I don;t know the school - but there is a DS and a Dd going to separate schools in this case, so the commute is .
• All the parents who care send their kids private, so it leaves the state scools with leftovers

... and the one that is most

• "We send our dc private because we care about our childrens education" (Spoken about one of the schools on my vitriol list)

Yes, anna, did you get that right? However fabulous 14 euros a lunch is expensive!

So a lot of them are probably doing it beacsue they have the money, and it's just what you do, and it's what they did, and what their parents did etc.

It was a bit like that in my family. It was just what you did, with not all that much thought really.

In the course of my work i visited a local private primary recently. What struck me was that the classes were actually TOO small - one class had about 6 kids in it. Not enough competition and how do you do team games?

Good lunches though!!

And let us not forget you don't have to be a qualified teacher to work in the private sector!!

If you'd put the stuff in your last post in your op as 'are these really crap reasons to send your child to private school' you would probably have had a very different set of responses.

As it is, it is silly to generalise about all the private primary schools in the country and all the parents who use them based on a very small and apparently slightly odd sample so YABU.

I agree with some of your points but round here many private schools have lovely outdoor space. Although we are lucky that dds (state) primary also has fantastic outdoor space, backing onto green fields. They have a nature reserve, grow veggies etc - it's lovely.

I agree with you re the homework. My friends children who are privately educated generally get at least an hour a night, from year 3 up. Some schools do seem to be a little like sausage factories, churning out good results. And all the children seem to do exactly the same work regardless of ability, and if they are struggling it's seen as 'not keeping up'. Whereas at my dd's state school, each child has their own targets which I think is great.

I also think it's a disadvantage only mixing with 'nice' children. Children should learn to mix with and get along with a wide range of people from all sorts of backgrounds - that's life isn't it?

Okay - let me speak from experience...

Substantial commutes to school. Who needs the extra stress? What's nicer than walking to school breathing fresh air?
My DD will be starting Private Primary School in Sept 2011 - With 5 minutes walking distance from my place of work and a 10 minute drive from our home. We will walk the majority of the time.

Private schools at primary level: by and large they offer a bit of a rubbish deal, don't they?
Personally No I don't agree - the one my DD will be going to will NEVER go above 30 in each class - infact its 20. So she will infact be getting a better deal - attention from teacher / support etc.

I'm just completely bemused why people persevere with them.

I hear about:

• zero to no outside space (busses to local parks) - compared to fab imaginative playgrounds at local state schools. Presumably it's required by law of a state school, but not of a private school.

The School my DD will be attending has a FAB outside space - creative / lots of activities - in fact one of the reasons we chose the school.

• No school dinners in some cases - I find this pretty shocking tbh. Good communal eating is so important.
  School Dinners are included within the FEES - its a communal dining hall and the menu is excellent.

• Heavy homework demands on top of a long school day - leading to stress between parents and kids as they try to achieve it
  Not much more than what the state schools get. I personally want my child to enjoy school and have no intention to 'stress' her or me...I personally think she will be more stressed in state school (especially in my Borough - really oversubscribed) where she will have to wait longer for a teachers attention.

and the complete killer:

• 'We'd love another baby, but we couldn't afford another set of school fees'. Well we can't really afford for one set of school fees BUT we will manage. My DD is currently in a private nusery and that payment will move on to her private schooling. When we have our second child he/she too will be given the same opportunities as this DD.

So really and truly I think YABU. I work for the LA and closely with the LEA - for the same Borough I live in and whilst the schools are VERY POPULAR and hence oversubscribed I WILL NOT be sending my DD to any of the primarys because I know for a fact she will not get the best she (or any child for that matter) deserves...

Are you perhaps a little bitter that your children wont be attending private. Mrsrufflo same goes for you....

At ds's prep three meals a day were included in the fees.

Didgeridoo - Edexcel do IGCSEs as well as ordinary GCSEs.

You are taking this way to personally whitecat
Your posts actually constitute personal attacks. Mine were general.
I think you are coming across as quite angry and unpleasant yourself. I have reported your remarks

I struggle with the outside space thing at ds' private prep school, only 151 acres i'm afraid and the poor boy had to have beef wellington for lunch today. Life's a bitch eh...

We do packed lunches, I like it, makes me feel all "mummish" getting his lunch, vegemite sandwiches all the way - it is what I had and it made me grow big and strong.

Hot lunches at school are just a weird idea to me, unless it is a pie from the tuck shop, filled to the brim with tomato sauce squirted inside.

None of what the OP described can be applied to DDs school. It's not a con at all - DH is a secondary school teacher if children have poor basic skills it's very very difficult to turn this around in secondary school years. He sees this day after day. Get the early years right and you're off to a great start. I'm glad I'm investing at this end, not sure what we'll do later.

I disgaree OP. I am more than happy with DD's prep school. She has been there almost 4 years no, is just turned 8y and in Y3, and we love it, and most importantly DD loves it. She has just returned from a 4 day residential at Centre Parcs with her school and they have had an amazing time, she is so comfortable and secure with her school and her teachers she was not worried in the slightest.

I have to disgaree with much of your OP comments TBH. Not our experience, and we are also not constrained by financial reasons as to not having another child - just fertility issues.

I can't read throughthe whole thing, not least because it will mostly be what is usually posted on these threads and I don't have that kind of time

But the OP is bollocks.

My two children at private schools both walk there, they love them, I can afford it. I make my choices on the basis of what I know about my children and waht is available.
As everyone should

People expressingtheir uninformed views on how I educate my children can fuck off

Lots of silly generalisations, OP.

SOME private primaries offer a rubbish deal. Some offer a great deal. It is usually obvious if you go see the school which it is. As with anything else in life, if it is a rubbish deal you spend your money elsewhere.

Equally, SOME state primaries offer a great education, some are so bad you would not educate your dog there. Same process applies.

Another private parent who can't recognise the schools in the op. Just another attempt at "aren't all private parents wankers" IMHO. Yawn

OK, to address the points you make:

• zero to no outside space - the playgrounds and grounds of DD's city based prep school are as big as most of the local primary schools, but DD's school has 90 children sharing the space rather than 2-3 times as many. Granted there is no climbing frame or toy train (like in the infants I work at) but they have a climbing wall, playhouses, skipping ropes, hulahoops, etc.

• Substantial commutes to school - 10 min car drive which is on DH's route towork; he rives by the entrance. Local school is over a mile away and becuase of or work committments we'd still have to take the car.

• No school dinners in some cases - hot school meal provided every day, included in the school fees. Dietary needs provided for.

• Heavy homework demands on top of a long school day - so far have not had loads of homework at all; infact friend's Ds in a local primary (same age.year) gets way more than DD has ever had.

'We'd love another baby, but we couldn't afford another set of school fees' - not an issue here nor for anyone else we know. Reason I have one child is because I have fertility issues nd over five years of TTC have not solved that one

Other issues highlighted elsewhere:

• longer school holidays - I work in a school so get 13 weeks as it is. The additional 3 weeks DD gets are easily covered for us as I only work PT, DH can work from home and we have both ses of parents an hour away who are very happy to look after DD for a night or two.

• small classes: DD's in a class of 15 which I think is a lovely size. There are some smaller classes in her school and one larger i think. The girls all play between the classes, everyone knows everyone and it is really inclusive. Friendships are not limited by the age or class the child is in.

Anything else?

What utter shite.

Hulababy has said everything that I would say.

I love the way you say "I hear about"......

I think someone's been pulling your plonker, OP!!!!!

oh Hulababy
very patient of you, although perhaps you should have used smaller words?

I was going to detail how the OP was wrong in my DCs cases in every single point but couldn't be arsed.

Its like -

why do people got to pubs? They don't have gardens, are really smelly, don't allow children and have no food available....the people who go to pubs are soooo stupid

well the one around the corner from me is like that so they must all be

pagwatch
ditto

Parents who can afford to pay private school fees aren't stupid. They can see what they are getting for their money, compared to what they can get for free.

None of what Kif has mentioned in the OP applies to the two Private schools near me. Neither do I feel they would provide £7,500 worth pa more than my DC receive at their state schools.