Argh - and so begins another week - following on from thread of overbearing mother with regards to her child and mine

[kolacubes]

DS has his first school trip this week, to a theme park (not sure of the educational value but that's another thread!)

I posted at the weekend about parents of another child wanting to force my child to be close friends with their child, playing with them at break times did not appear to be enough.

Now my dc has been excited since January about this trip, since he found out that he goes on a coach, and has a picnic and is out of school for the day.

Anyway he's come home from school, and I said not long until the trip, and I got a 'mmm', I said are you getting nervous about it 'no'. What's up? 'I've got to go with the other class and am paired with x. I'm not with any of my class.'

I said in my original post that I'd told the teacher any any decisions re pairings for activities I would leave to the teacher to decide when she asked me last week. But after seeing my child was sad I offered to talk to the teacher tomorrow, and he said 'please don't I will do it, mrs z will be cross if she has to change groups.'

This is a 5 year old - with latest development do I still bite my tongue?

What is this mother telling the teachers? Because I have known and know many teachers and none of them would be bowing down to a parent so their kid could be with another on a school trip ( far too much to deal with for that sort of nonsense and it's easier if not paired with friends to keep them in line).

Umm - more to this than meets the eye... Do you have any mutual friends you might get info out of?

sorry for sounding like a nosy cow but I would

1. be glad he class are going the same day
2. say you'd like your son on the coach with his class and the other boy too if they insist.
3. demand he is a small group with his classmates and this boy (again if they insist on the pairing)

Perhaps som advice which may help for you the 'inclusion'. The school should do everything possible to include children and remove barriers where they may already exist.

Fair enough BUT they SHOULD NOT be unincluding (IYSWIM) your son from his peers as this is counterproductive.

Hope this helps? (I work in education BTW)

kolacubes, my ds1 was in a similar situation when he was in Junior Infants ( reception in Ireland!) and I was sorry for two years afterwards that I hadn't intervened. This child dominated ds1 at the behest of his mother but in the end dumped him and left him friendless as he had been moved to another class with this boy, leaving his other friends behind. Ended up with us in a situation where ds1 had a sad conversation with dh saying "Nobody plays with me and 23 people in my class don't like me"
We had him moved back to the other class in the end but I would never, ever again allow other parents to decide who my ds was friends with.

I also posted on your other thread and I really don't think you should bite your tongue, I think it is definitely worth speaking to the teacher.

On your other thread I was worried that by the other parents being pushy and you saying that you would leave it up to the teacher (hope I am paraphrasing correctly!) that there was a chance that the teacher would think that they wouldn't upset you but could make another parent/child happy by going along with what the other parent wanted thinking that you didn't mind. And would then go along with what the other parent wanted, even if it was to the detriment of your child.

This trip is supposed to be one of the highlights of the year for your son and he has been excited for a long time. Given your child is so upset (and even if he wasn't particularly), I think it is not only perfectly reasonable but something you need to ask the teacher why he has been moved away from his class on his own - regardless of who he ends up being paired with from the other class.

Even if you phrase it as 'has ds done something wrong - he's wondering why he is being punished by not being allowed to go on the trip with his friends' it would hopefully make her see it from his point of view.

And I do think you need to make it clear that you are not happy with your child being moved away from his friends under any circumstances. Particularly if he is the only one.

If there was an imbalance in the numbers and they had one too many in his class and one too few in the other so wanted to even them out, it would be more reasonable to have a couple of mixed groups so that there wasn't just one child alone in a different class.

If it was done because the other mother suggested it (either directly or indirectly) are you brave enough to talk to the other mother directly, specifically about this trip? You could say something about the fact that you were surprised that she asked the teacher to move your child out of his class and away from his friends so he would be on his own in a different class, that he was really looking forward to it and he's now so upset that you would appreciate it if she didn't stalk interfere do anything that invovled her talking to the teachers about your son.

If she says that your son is her son's best friend, then that is a good opportunity to genly talk about this and point out that while your son is friends with this boy, he doesn't consider him to be best friends and that he loves his class at the moment. It's not an unreasonable thing to say, particularly given that the two boys are not in the same class.

I would be livid with the teacher and the other parent and would insist that my child went with their normal class.

I didn't comment on your other thread but followed it and thought that you should have spoken to the teacher in the first place to be honest.

I understood the position to be that the other child has issues making friends, has latched onto your child for whatever reason, your child is not that bothered about this other boy but the other boys parents are pushing the school to put them together.

I do feel very sorry for the other child, but how is it fair that your DC is taken away from his friends to be with someone he is not too keen on?? Unfortunately, some children do have difficulty making friends but in my experience forcing children to be friends can make the situation worse as it builds resentment, which seems to be the case here.

There is also the possibility that if this continues your DC could begin to be left out of his existing group of friends.

I think that you have to stick up for your little boy personally.

I feel sorry for your son, he is too young to get caught up in this shit. he should be going with his class, and his little mates

dont go in guns blazing but explain to teacher that (a) you dont want your child pushed into a friendship and (b) he is unhappy about being moved classes, can they explain why this has been done

good luck

I do wonder whether there are other issues here that you have not been made aware of.

On the whole I think that it's fine to encourage children to play with and be friends with everyone some of the time. Lots of schools have buddy systems for example where certain children are paired with certain other children. Having said that, while it's one thing to encourage all friendships, actively excluding a child from his own circle of friends in order to facilitate other friendships is not on and I would address this asap.

You do need to be very careful though, because if you go in and make any reference to these children not being paired you will be made to look like the bad guy. So what you need to do is:

Go into school and ask why your child has been moved to the other class for this trip. Make it clear that your child is not happy about this move, and demand ask nicely that this move be reversed. In fact I would say that as you have not been informed of any issues with your child that might warrant him being excluded from his own class and deliberately moved into the other class, that you request he be moved back to his original class for the trip (don't even mention the other child), and that failure to do so will result in you keeping him off school for the day of the trip.

I can't beleive they've separated your son from his class for a school trip.

It obviously is more focussed on fun, so would actually be an ideal opportunity for the other boy to have a good time with his own classmates.

I'd be pretty fuming actually. No matter what the needs are of the other boy, it's not fair to disregard those of your son. Yes he's confident, happy and sociable now - but for how long if he keeps having to worry about this other child. He's too young for all this. Why should your son have to be the 'grown up' when as far as I've read, the other boy doesn't have special needs or a disability to be taken into account here.

I'd be arranging to see the teacher before the trip and getting this reversed. It's madness.

What Moominmarvellous said...personally I would go apeshit.

I think you need to speak to the teacher because you don't know what this other Mum has been telling them. She may have given the impression that she is speaking on behalf of you and your DS and that you all welcome this arrangement.

Perhaps just mention that DS is very upset that he won't be with the rest of his class and ask why this is, is it because of numbers or whatever.

If she says that it is response to a specific request then let the teacher know that you are not happy as your little boy is not looking forward to it at all now.

I too posted on your other thread and I do think this has gone too far. For most children this age, the coach trip is the highlight. For your son to be taken out of his class group is ridiculous. I agree with lots of the other advice here, so won't add anything, but this arrangement is at the expense of your child.

Are you absolutely sure they aren't mixing them all up? At our school, although reception are nominally divided into two classes, they are mixed up as often as possible because in year 1 they are split up into new class groups that they will stay in all through the rest of Primary school. Could something like that be happening here?

Right have spoken to the school, and I think my feelings are now very clear, remained polite but I was not happy.

I played ignorant to begin with - I said have the groups for the trip been organised? And I was told yes and when asked was given the names of the other children in the other group.

The other group is my ds and the other boy, and all the girls of the other class. (My ds although has no issue with girls (older sister) doesn't play with girls at all in the playground).

I asked why is he with the other class, and was told that he'd keep the girls in check as they all look up to him. I said he's 5 how's he keep girls in check, and was told due to his size (he towers over his classmates) they adore him, and will follow him, which will make it easier.

The other boy's mother was not happy about him going on the trip (getting lost) and therefore she wanted my son with her son, as her son would remain with my son.

So I said let me get this right, my son is looking after these kids, has he done something wrong. Oh no he's the most sensible and most behaved one, he sets the best example.

I explained that this was getting ridiculous, he was being punished for being good. I said you are separating him from his friends on the trip not because he will misbehave but because he is well behaved, I said you separate him at lunch time from his friends not because he's a fussy eater, but because he behaves and eats well, and you want him to set an example. I said you are putting too much pressure on him, and I want him to be rewarded for his good behaviour.

And the teacher responds, well he said he didn't mind when we asked him. No of course he said he wouldn't mind, again because he behaves and doesn't kick off when he has to do something that he doesn't want to do, you have taken advantage of it.

Anyway the long and the short of it is, I agreed to the other boy going in the group with the girls, and 2 of the girls are going with the other girls and 2 of the boys from my son's class are going with him. He will be moved back to the regular table for lunch times.

And it is unlikely there will be any class mixing up at the end of the academic year, although they wouldn't commit to that yet.

I am very glad I spoke to them, but how utterly ridiculous.

its ridiculous that the other parents are pushing so much, dont they realise that trying to push your child towards friends will only ever in turn push those friends away?

Well done! I think it always seems to be the case that the nice good children are at a disadvantage (in life, as well as in school)

Could you perhaps encourage your son to get "lost" on the trip, taking the other boy with him. That'd guarantee that they'd never be paired together again

where's the other thread? I need the background!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/965590-to-think-if-my-dc-doesn-39-t-want-to

I agree that 'nice', sensible children can be at a disadvantage; I have been known to say I wish I'd brought them up as brats as then they'd stand a chance of getting attention and their own way.

But, tbf, that's usually only felt like an issue when the school has been remiss in some way - as it has here.

I didn't post on your other thread as, from the op, it seemed the emphasis was more on your resisting this family's approaches as a matter of principle - but now I agree it's got ridiculous and hopefully at least the school now know you won't be messed about.

I'm really pleased you've got it sorted and I know your probably really proud of your son right now he sounds a delight.

You were right that he seems to be punished for being good/ not fussing etc and I'm glad you have spoken up for him.

Hope he has a good trip.

Good for you. You did the right thing.

Sounds like you put it across very well. Sounds like the other mum is very anxious and they don't know how to handle her. As if your son should be responsible for ensuring he doesn't get lost!

Mumbar - I would like to say I was very proud of him, just as I went to read your message, he shouted that he hated me and i was so unfair. Simpsons had ended and I told him was time for bed

He really is just a regular 5 year old.

House devil - street angel

Having a 5 year old DS myself I know exactly what you mean!!!

PS I would do the same as you but my DS would never be labelled as the good influence

I read a bit of your previous thread and am really glad for you and your DS that you stood up and said your say today.

Good for you!!

LOL at "house devil - street angel"......

(I also have a 5 yr old DS!)

Saw your last thread too... this is all getting a bit stalkerish, no? I'd be creeped out poor ds