To think that people without children should just STFU

[Tryharder]

..when it comes to making judgements about how other people's children should behave.

I had a bit of an argument with a colleague this morning (OK, I admit I was probably BU but am 28 weeks pregnant so am allowed )

I work in an enviroment dealing with the travelling public i.e can be quite stressful/fraught, long delays etc.

I had dealings with a couple who were travelling with their 3 year old who had the most almight tantrum about something trivial - this child really kicked off - it was quite impressive actually. I didn't react badly, smiled sympathetically and said something along the lines of "oh glad it's not just my kids then..." To be honest, this couple dealt with the situation fantastically - didn't get angry or stressed or shouty, just picked kid up and swept him away kicking and screaming.

As soon as this couple had gone, my colleagues (all single, late 20s, no kids) started making the most awful comments about how crap the parents were to allow their child to behave like that and how their children (when they had them) wouldn't be allowed to get away with that. I laughed and said they had no idea at all. One loud, big-gob colleague then started on about how she often looked after her sister's kids who of course, would never dream of tantrumming in public and how that kid obviously ruled the roost at home and about how she would have put that kid in it's place. You get the picture. Anyway, I turned round to see that the mum of the screaming toddler was still in the vicinity and had no doubt overheard my loud colleague. I felt really bad for her and told my colleague in less than polite terms that she was totally out of order which of course resulted in my colleague not speaking to me for the rest of the shift!!

So, how would you all have reacted? Why do people feel the need to judge parents when they have absolutely no idea about children. Some of the comments were so nasty "that child should get a good slap" etc..

yabu
they have right to speak

My children were perfect.

Until they were born

YANBU in that your colleagues were not only rude and unprofessional. I certainly would have been annoyed too, especially as your colleague didnt speak to you for the rest of the shift.

However I do think you are BU about people not having children not knowing about children.

Its quite seperatist to think that childless people know nothing about behaviour.

Example : Supernanny is also childless. And while she cant speak properly, she does have a good understanding of controlling behaviour. More so than some parents.

Your colleague was out of order.

But that doesn't mean people wihtout children are not allowed opinions on children.

For example, plenty of people on here make judgements regarding how other people's dogs behave, without having dogs themselves.

I'll admit that (most) children are harder to train than dogs.

You are right, people with no kids should shut the fark up!

My youngest child had reflux as a baby and was very clingy towards me, one new years eve we stayed at my mums for a NYE party. My sister was there who wasnt pregnant or had kids. Alfie was been a struggle and was crying and wouldnt settle with out me, he was teething, so i gave him some calpol and some stuff on his gums and he had a bottle, bum change and then i tried to get him to sleep, in the end after about an hour and a half i left him to cry but still listening out for him. My sister was going on, and on about 'its cruel you have left him, he wants a cuddle' i was saying he was extremely tired, he has some numbing stuff on his gums and he will be asleep soon, ( i was checking on him every 5 mins) anyway she started been the nasty sulky bitching little sister and started saying

your a cruel mother etc etc...i ignored her.

She has just had a baby in January and he is very clingy and cries alot, and the she has started leaving him to cry but checking on him every 5 mins when he is been difficult.

She did it whilst on the phone to me the other day and she just said 'oh he wont stop crying, i dont know what to do wiht him, hes fed, water, clean bum, ambesol on his gums but he still crying' then she said il leave him, in room in his moses and sit in kitchen, leave him to cry'

So then i just joked with her 'whos the cruel mother now' lol luckily she laughed about it and it said, i just realise now what you went through.

So one day those people will realise whats its like to have a toddler having a tantrum in a public place.

Also when i was younger (well 18/19ish juyst before i met my DH)

I would go shopping with my mum and if there was a kids crying or screaming (mostly in PRIMARK) they mother would just leave it, and i dont know if its just me but i hate t hear kids crying, i know its awful to say but the noise goes through me (its still does now and im a mother of 2)

i use to just say loudly to my mum 'i will they'd shut that bloody child up, or id say 'give it a dummy or sommat to shut it up' (but loudly.

When i first told my mum i was pregnant with my first and that i had decided to keep him (as i didn't first want the baby, i booked a termination - i was 20 at the time and had a good job, new car etc etc - though i would get sacked so thought it was easiest option)

Her first words were 'but you hate kids!' lol

Sorry about the spelling mistakes, some of my keys are not working and i am also watching Disney Cars lol

I am afraid I think YABU. I have three children and I still find screaming kids deeply unpleasant. It's perfectly understandable that people react, dislike the yelling and the carrying on. Of course they shouldn't be rude but the reality is that a screaming child is impossible to ignore and is awful to be around.

To all those people who are saying 'people with kids don't know what they're talking about/it's impossible for them to understand' - what about childless people who DO understand and empathise with parents when their kids are kicking off?

I've not got kids. I have however spent ridiculous amounts of time with them, including my niece and nephews [four, all under eight, and LOL at them ever being on their best behaviour for me, in public or not], kids I've nannied and babysat for and kids I've worked with [who at the moment are ones with profound autism and learning disabilities, and trust me, they don't give a jot about going easy on me because I'm not their parent].

I do think there are parents out there who could do better, who make mistakes. So do the majority of you, and you know it - what about the mother screaming at her kid to shut up in the playground, or the father belting his kid round the head in the supermarket because he says he needs a wee? They are parents and they do not automatically know better.

Equally, not being a parent does not automatically mean you can't understand. The vast majority of the time when I see a kid behaving like a kid in public, I give the parent a smile and move on, without feeling the need to make a judgement on why it's happening, because I know I don't know the circumstances.

yeah those who empathise are okay but just the stuck up ones who for some reason think their child will be perfect & judge others as a bad mum if there child does anything wrong
those with no kids but who are realistic about kids are fine, i dont see why anyone would have an issue with that but its just annoying if you were judged or treated like a bad mum by a clueless person
personally it gets on my nerves some of my friends without kids just fuss soo much, 'isnt he too cold he needs blankets & bla bla bla' whereas as the mum i think i would know (lol my baby was in a full snow suit when someone started on about that!)
obviously not all are like it, but those who think they know more than the mum or that their kids all will be angels then yes stfu.
if they just think it in their head quietly then fine, they will soon learn but to mouth off about it is not on when they dont even know

So only people with children are allowwed to find other children annoying?

Well there's a difference between finding a child annoying and making snap judgements about the parenting of that child, and voicing those judgements out loud

Well, glad most of you agree with me... . I'm sure my colleague will forgive me - we get on quite well really. I remember visiting a friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country when she was pregnant with her first child and I had DS1 who at the time was about 10 months old - crawling but not walking.

My friend for had a load of little glass beads around her fireplace in some sort of decorative feature. It was a bloody nightmare and I spent the entire time pulling DS1 away from the fireplace and prising glass beads out of his mouth - my friend kept saying "why don't you tell him not to do that?" with a face like a cat's arse.

When I visited a year later when her baby was around the same age, I noticed that the beads had disappeared. Funny that.

looking after other people's children is in no way the same as having your own - even if they are nieces/nephews - you just don't have the same emotional investment and 24h care thing going on.

I remember thinking (and saying) to a good friend of mine whose DC were hopelessly out of control that she should send them to me, I'd sort them out for her. And I would have been a lot tougher on them because they weren't mine - whether it would have worked or not we'll never know because she never took me up on the offer of places at Thumb's Boot Camp, wonder why...

However - it did give me the incentive to do some things differently from her - not to indulge them as much as she did (this I never did say to her) and not to allow them to run riot and rule the house. So far, DS hasn't taken over and he isn't as indulged as they were and isn't hopelessly out of control - so sometimes thinking "I would do that differently" DOES work out for you.

But to criticise in a situation where the parents were responding to the situation, as in the op, is stupid really - no one else has any idea what the dynamic really is there and they should keep their judgeypants opinions to themselves. If the parents had done nothing about it, or said "bless, such high spirits" or something equally unuseful then your colleague might have been justified in her comments - but in the circs you described, I would say not.

What if the colleague (who I think was in the wrong here, by the way) did have children, but happened by chance to have easy, quiet, biddable children? She could quite easily have said the same thing. Would it be okay then? OR should she still have STFU?

Your colleagues are allowed to have their opinions (which are Wrong but they will find out in due course).

They are entitled to show their ignorance by speaking those thoughts out loud on the grounds of freedom of speech.

That female colleauge was however Incredibly Unprofessional to allow her personal pique and ill judgment to say it loud enough to be overheard by the airline customers.

You were right to pull her up on it. Good on you. She sounds extremely immature and deserves her tail between her legs.

Trillian, she still should have STFU.

Basically, when it comes to other people's parenting, if the parenting isn't actually dangerous or abusive, you say something nice or say nothing at all. There is NEVER a good reason to bitch loudly about someone's child having a tantrum.

I personally think it draconian to say people should STFU.

You can't stop people from mouthing off. But if anyone does not STFU, then they had better be able to take it on the chin.

I would have no sympathy if someone with a motor mouth got their earful. None whatsoever.

So in that case it's not 'people without children' who should STFU, tortoise.

What blueshoes said about it being unprofessional. You couldn't say your colleague shouldn't express her opinion to you - you might not agree, but then she might not agree with you about everything. But being rude to the parent in question is bad anyway and worse if you're supposed to be being polite as part of your job.

Agreed, Trillian, but there's an extra level of when the parenting advice comes from the childless, don't you think?

This is a horrible thread...why single out people without children to tell to shut the fuck up...surely anyone else in the world that holds a different opinion to you should shut the fuck up? Do you ever have an 'opinion' about how other people raise their kids - I bet many of you pass judgement all the time without knowing anything about another's life.

I am childless, and I have god children, I work with children and I have lots of friends that have children. Over the years I have babysat, been birthing partner, been to hospitals when my friends' kids have been sick, rarely get visits from friends with kids - we always go to them so that their family routine is not inconvenienced; and I would be horrified to think that they thought I should 'shut the fuck up'.

And guess what...we know that the reality of parenting is different when it actually happens....you don't need a PhD to figure that one out....it's not some great fucking secret that is mystically revealed once you have had a baby...people can often be unrealistic about other peoples circumstances, regardless of whether they have children or not - check out the MIL threads'.

The phrase "people without children" is a bit of a sweeping statement, a catch-all which really means "people who haven't the experience of looking after children in various challenging situations".

It's not:

People without children should keep their mouths shut.

It's:

Ignorant, judgemental people should keep their mouths shut. And if they really have to say something should do so politely.

Actually, it kind of is a great fucking secret that is mystically revealed when you have had a baby.

Prebaby I worked as both a behavioural therapist and a Speech and Language Therapist. I had also taken care of lots of kids in my wider family etc, some for extended periods. I thought I was wonderfully empathetic when others' kids had tantrums and I felt really sorry for harassed mums in the supermarket with toddlers etc..

I still hadn't a clue. You feel so exposed as a parent when your child is kicking off and no matter how well trained you are in being consistent, your emotions get in the way and make you (at least sometimes) do things differently to how you had idealised..

So I really believe people who don't have kids can't actually understand this one, much the same way I can't actually understand what it might be like to have a child with a disability or a sudden bereavement. Some things you just don't know until you've been there, sorry.

Have to agree with you mrsbean78, I had loads of nieces and nephews, but until you actually have a child day in and day out,through the good days and the bad days (and the absolutely awful days when they kick off and you have had months of broken sleep!!!) then you don't really know.

Never mind the fact that my DS just doesn't kick off with others the way he can with me. (But he isn't as loving with others as he is with me so he's forgiven!!!)