In not having much sympathy with a couple on £45k plus per year having some benefits cut?

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There is loads of this on the news just now about how "middle income" families will be having some child tax credits cut and might be paying more tax. They news are showing what to me looks like comfortable off families having to do with a bit less. Is this really so bad? I know an income of £45-£50k per year might not be much in central London but will keep you in style in parts of the north, but how bad will it be? So people might have to change jobs/give up the second car/holiday at home instead of Spain every year? SO WHAT? There are plenty of us living on less than £25k a year who have had to cut back since having kids and take this as a fact of life.

I know MN is made up of mostly middle earners and I'll get pelters for this, but I don't really care. Anyone I know on a middle income can afford to give up some things _ its called life.

What are these deleted posts? They are often the more interesting ones.

Anyway.... "I reckon Bulgaria doesn't have the nice restaurants and social set rich Londoners like. Nor very posh schools. "

I am not going there yet. There are lots of ways lawfully to minimise tax. Lots of people can ensure money comes in as capital taxed at lower rates than income etc although that's likely to be altered shortly. Yes, VAT is likely to go up to 20% (and possibly go on food? but if I had to put money on it I'd say probably not).

I don't eat out. I did go out to dinner twice last week but I wasn't paying. As a family we don't. It's expenseive and yet a lot of much lower income families will eat out as a matter of course. You can get a lovely meal at home from baked potatoes etc which a fraction of the price of meals out. I don't ever pay a hairdresser either. In other words there are lots of ways people can cut back if they want.

On the issue moving for work people do it all over the planet. It's hard with children and families can end up split which is never ideal but sometimes the only way they can improve things. In areas where there are more people with money there tend to be more jobs as a kind of spin off from their earnings, they buy more in whether that's babysitting, house cleaning, children's parties or a whole myriad of things.

The issue for the politicians is which income level taxed more will raise them the revenue they need. We used to haev a 33% basic rate tax in the UK plus national insurance. We have gone much much lower of late but may be heading back up to there now because of all the debt.

Because there was a troll who just started effing and blinding and writing the c-word and sodomy and all sorts of ridiculous stuff.

This troll then went on another thread and started doing the same thing there.

I saw that and that they fear the books were cooked by labour and have no idea of the real problems but the independent audit will make it clear, I expect.

(Yes, I don't trickle down well as I'm not a high spender which is one reason rise in VAT is fairly irrelevant to me unless it goes on food but I do pay for people who provide services here which is a huge trickledown, indeed a Niagra Falls in a way which would toatlly fall away if I moved abroad because of higher taxation)

Yes, I agree Quattro and Flockwallpaper. It's very easy to talk about high earners as if they have no worries and are rolling in it when that isn't (always) the case.

I was shocked to hear how much my DH pays in tax - around £41k in employer's NI contributions, £60k corporation tax (for nothing, they don't even empty his bins!), business rates plus his own personal tax liability, which was small as he doesn't take much money out of the business, but reinvests it. The CGT changes will hit him badly too,. Cashflow is always a problem when running your own business, so we rarely feel secure. He nearly lost the business last year but luckily things got better.

Although he may appear a high earner, most of the money is reinvested and he draws enough to pay the bills and we live on a budget, buying mostly Tescos 2 for 1. (I am currently retraining to be a teacher, so no lady who lunches). But he is proud to be a working class boy with no formal qualifications who has done well for himself. And he is happy to pay his way and contribute to society.

I think, after much rambling, that is my point. Higher earners are not necessarily selfish, uncompassionate people but may already be contributing a lot of money in tax and will doubtless, need to pay even more in the future.

£45k in London doesn't go far. We're on a bit more that that now OH is employed again - but we are stuck living in one bed flat (three of us), and live quite frugally.

If we have a holiday we usually stay with family/friends. Going to a holiday resort would be out of the question for us. We don't get any tax credits or benefits of any kind at all.

We would be better off living elsewhere in UK, but then again we would be paid less I guess & we would be far away from family & friends.

So to treat a family on £45k in London as earning the same as one on £45k in a less expensive part of UK is unfair. But, as I'm sick of hearing, life isn't fair!

I think everyone will be taxed more. There are not enough really high earners to make enough of a difference but rest assured they are being taxed more too - eg loss of personal allowance, increase in NI, 50% tax rate and loss of tax relief on pensions.

We are what you'd probably consider a high earning family although with housing & childcare so expensive in London we are def not rich. We both work really hard - the only "benefit" we get is child benefit. I also offended by the cappuncino remark - I can't remember when I last bought one.

Our children are at a state school, we make our own sandwiches to take to work, our one car is around 7 years old and was bought 2nd hand, we haven't been abroad for a couple of years. Just had DC3 and haven't bought him anything new at all, its all hand me downs - clothes, cot, pram, car seat - some from my older DC and some from his cousins.

No doubt we will be hit with an additional tax burden, but I hope its not too much. I am not sure who these super rich people are that you all want to tax as they can afford it.

£45K in London certainly doesn't go far. If you have 2 or more kids I doubt it goes very far in other parts either but in London you certainly suffer. It is a shame that some many people here are willing and eager to make assumptions about others and their ability to contribute.

It does annoy me a bit when people on this sort of income moan that they have no disposable income as their mortgage is £1500 a month. Unless you live in Surrey or London, etc do they not think that maybe, just maybe they should have bought a smaller house?

I know a friend in my town in this position, they had a perfectly decent 3-bed semi but chose to move to a massive 4 bed detached house. Their mortgage is now £1300 a month where previously it had been £300. I've stayed in a 3 bed semi with a £300 a month mortgage.

Why should tax payers have to subsidise people like this so that they can have big houses?

Obviously if you live in an area where a one bed flat is 300k this rant does not apply to you.

Riven - I think it is mainly because of mortgage and then on top of that, like MintHumbug said, childcare and travel. I do, however, agree with you. It is expensive everywhere.

Its more expensive in London:

a) cost of housing - can be more than double
b) cost of childcare - I have to pay £100 a day, can't make it work for less than that
c) cost of travel into central London
d) cost of luxuries ie car parking/cleaners/meals out etc cost more.