I do not know anyone who is having a 'party' living on benefits....post here if you do

[electra]

On MN, I keep reading on many different threads that Labour has been giving away loads of money in benefits to people who don't really need it which has caused the financial crisis.

All the people I know who rely on their tax credits and have children seem to have to watch every penny. I do not see evidence of them having any sort of 'party' life.

I had thought the banks were mostly responsible for the financial crisis by lending money that didn't exist.

Can anyone correct me on this? I'm open to different opinions.

Agree with OP.

not read the rest sorry.

"Thats roughly £200 a week for bills/good/clothing chldren"

But that is a lot more than some working couples have left over once they have paid their rent/mortgage and council tax.

It is more than many people get/earn/have.

I find it not only bizarre but annoying too.
She also gets child benefit don't forget and I'm not sure how much that is for 3 kids. And if you don't have to buy fruit and veg and milk for your kids then you only need to buy a few bits to make a meal for them.
I kid you not, this is how she lived her life

And I just remebered the kids get free school meals so they get a sandwich or a McDonalds for tea, and she buys all smart price food.They have a maximum of £20 each for their main Christmas pressie, so she saves a lot of money that way to fund her lifestyle.
If after paying my rent, council tax, and rent for the TV and washing machine I had £200 left to buy food and clothes I'd be a very happy bunny indeed!!

Didn't read much past the OP but yes, I do. Every person I knew at sixth form who received EMA (up to £30 a week for students with families on low incomes, to help with the costs of studying - buying books, transport etc.) was literally having a party on it, spending the money on nights out drinking and new clothes and instead of having a weekend job like 'middle income' students. I wouldn't have minded if the EMA had been in the form of book tokens or bus passes.

haven't read the whole thread, sorry, but i have been really taken aback at the expense of getting round London since the prices went up - even a couple of bus rides on oyster seems to eat up a fiver. I think if you were on benefits in the city you would really struggle. are all the 'better off' benefits people living out of the capital maybe?

the low-paid sector are definitely in a bad position too though - mcjobs pay so little and it's so hard to juggle WTC and CTC if you are earning different amounts each month.

Did anyone mentioned that a lot of these things are nowdays more affordable?

Once upon the time holidays abroad was a status symbol. Middle class families went abroad, working class families went camping in uk. Easy. Clear boundaries. You could seperate them from the suntan or lack of it.

Then easy jet comes and every fucker can go to Spain for £30. Annoying!

Same thing with electronic stuff, furnitures, phones etc. If you shop around yu can get them very cheap.There is ebay and freecycle. And Asda does olive oil for £1. And children can learn french and mandarin on net for free. Threatening?

I think those who complain about people on benefits being able to afford things are only using the benefits word because it is easier to target those people and the 'benefit' word justifies their vitriol. But in fact they feel this way about working class in general-with job or no job- 'How dare they..?'.

The comment about the cleaner in Egypt is a good example. The same vitriol applies for shop or factory workers, catering staff etc.

we have a bugaboo. we got it for £200 off ebay last time I was pg (2007 when DP had a job). it's so old it has the old logo. in between finishing using it for last baby and getting ready for this one, our friends - 2 students 'with no hint of a job' between them - borrowed it. after this baby grows out of it I will sell it for not much less than I paid for it, that's why I chose to buy a quality brand second hand in the first place, cos I knew it'd last and hold its resale value.

but why on earth i'm explaining/justifying to you how people like us (who have clearly 'done the wrong thing') can afford a bugaboo is absolutely beyond me. If you believe, as you seem to, that you would be better off on benefits, that benefits are the key to pedigree puppies and bugaboos and all that is important in life, then go on benefits. If you know that actually you are FAR better off than people living on the poverty line, then you need to ask yourself why you want them to wear a big badge declaring their economic inferiority in order for you to feel good.

laquitar.....i think you've hit the nail on the head there!!

Why shouldn't people question the benefit system though? There are so many posts on here (and I would imagine that it's a reflection of what goes on in the wider society) with stories of people who are actually better off on benefits than the people working to pay for those benefits, and that is just not right.

I'm not surprised that people are beginning to feel pretty peed off about the whole issue - I'm only surprised it's taken so long for questions to be raised. Hopefully whoever is in Govt for the next few years will address this imbalance.

surely it depends on what we spend our money on, maybe the people on benefits who appear to have good lives because they have a flat screen tv sacrifice other things, surely if a person works but smokes and drinks they are going to appear to be worse off than someone on benefits who doesn't drink or smoke, budgets carefully and saves hard for that telly, I am sorry but I feel people on benefits get a bad deal, I do agree benefits are there for when we need them and should not provide a lap of luxury, but to say people on benefits are having a party I feel is untrue, the only people who do well on benefits is those that fiddle the system, those who are legitimate have to budget dam hard for the small luxuries in life, there are many people who do not want to be on benefits but have no choice, people on DLA or those who are carers doing a harder job with longer hours that anyone working, do we class them the same, not everyone on benefits is a waster I know plenty of people who are on benefits because they are stuck caring for sick relatives or because there husband walked out and left them with little kids. come on the give the real legitimate claimers a break, life is hard enough without dealing with the guilt laid on by everyone else, not everyone's lives run smoothly. If only it did and there was no need in our perfect world for anyone to claim benefits.

I don't know about "having a party". But it can be difficult when you work, have two incomes coming in and yet really struggle still to provide stuff like holidays, and your children don't have things like iPods and you drive a battered old car - and still you know of people who are on benefits, and who have just got a new car or have had an expensive holiday or a big TV.

Obviously these are isolated cases and need to be seen in context, but there is always part of you which thinks that they ought not to be able to afford these things at all, even on credit, if they don't work. Maybe it's unfair to judge, and maybe they have scrimped and saved, and eaten Bog Standard stuff from Lidl and spend next-to-nothing on the house so that their kids can have these things. But there are working people who do that and still can't afford it.

None of this should be used to bash the actual benefits system, which is a very important lifeline to those who genuinely need it and don't abuse it.

I don't know anyone who is having a good time on benefits. But I was at a friend's house once with someone else we both knew whose DH had been made redundant and was struggling to find a job. She was saying how hard it was to live on X amount of pounds after mortgage interest and council tax had been paid.

Friend whose house it was looked a bit pale when she heard the amount the other woman was complaining about. After she'd gone she said that actually that was the same, if not slightly more than her and her train driver DH had each month after they'd paid the mortgage and council tax.

Yes, it depends what you spend your money on - but there are plenty of people who work, don't drink and smoke, and still can't afford a flat screen TV (if that's important to you).

The thing is, there are people on benefits who don't fiddle the system, but who are better off than people who are working. I posted earlier about my friend who had never been on benefits in her life, left her hom that they owned, and husband who was on a good salary. With the various benefits she was entitled to with the 2 children, she was better off than she'd ever been - in her own words she'd "never been so well off". As someone who was new to the benefit system, it came as a real shock to her.

It's just not right that anyone can be better off on benefits than they would be working in terms of their income, regardless of what they then choose to do with that income.

'than the people working to pay for those benefits'.

I put people who work and struggle in 2 categories:

1. those who work but earn little. And struggling to pay their moderate house, childcare, travel cost. The minimum wage should rise instead of attacking benefits.
2. those who earn well but 'have' to pay mortgage for 5 bed house whith study, utility room, AP's en suite. Their choice.

Excellent post, Unquiet.

We live in a council maisonette and work.

We do know, personally, people who take in more, to us, plenty more, in benefits than we take home in work income.

Again, I know this couple who don't work. They don't really have any intention to, and it is hard as we have no garden and our car's a piece (need it for DH to go to work as he works shifts and public transport ends at 11PM) and there's no money for gyms, Sky, etc.

I know them because their kid goes to my daughter's school and they're quite open about it all.

I agree with UD about it all, though.

I do not believe homeowners should get housing benefit, either, to keep them in an asset when so many working people will never be able to buy at all, anything, because house prices are so inflated.

Agree - so is it right that the person who earns little, but works, should be working to pay tax to pay for a benefit system which enables anyone to be better off than if they were working? Of course it's not.

I agree that the minimum wage should be raised, but that's only part of a wider picture. The whole benefit system needs to be reviewed.

In the two examples I gave, the people don't fiddle the system, either.

DH knows a guy who is a lone parent who does, though.

But he got lobbed with a lot of debt from his utterly vile ex-partner and is a lone parent.

Oh, and NO way do I trust Tories to sort it all out.

Even on MN threads, there are so many Tory supporters who believe that all poor people are on benefits.

Many have no clue about the working poor, or even how life is for people earning, say, £22-£25K.

i just find it really hard when i am struggling with 3 children and a full time job, and i'm knackered, and i'm rushing doing school runs and music lessons and homework and working all day, i can rarely go on a school trip with my kids and have to move heaven and earth to attend an assembly, - my day starts at 7am and after collecting everyone, dinner, baths, homework, music prac, stories, bed time, washing up, bit of housework - nothing major, just keeping the house going - I rarely sit down before 9.30pm. My neighbour next door has exactly the same house as mine - same size, same garden etc - it is a council house, subsidised rent, she is on full benefits, she saunters to school with her kids, then her and a load of other mums go to the cafe for a bit, then..well then i don';t really know what she does, but on the 1 day a week i collect mine from school, she is there again, with the same friends she goes off to the cafe with in the morning, before sauntering back home again. they go on holiday, they have 3 cars (only 2 drivers though!) both pretty swanky, they have the inevitable massive telly (my kids are really jealous of it because we won't get them one) and obviously they are all dressed top to toe in designer label everything.

I know it shouldn't, and I know she is much worse off than me, and her children worse off than mine, in so many ways - but i would be totally and utterly lying if i didn;t say it really fucking bugs me.

If people are having a great lifestyle on benefits, they must surely be claiming incapacity benefit? because tax credits/child benefit, etc don't seem to represent a huge amount for someone who was not otherwise working. I hear about people who get 40K a year in benefits - but how do they do this?

I would be, too, rock.

'If people are having a great lifestyle on benefits, they must surely be claiming incapacity benefit?'

No, electra, the couple I know are not.

They have a beautiful council house, a car that actually accommodates three kids (and they had to buy another when they had the third), Sky+, gym membership, lessons for all the kids, etc.

They don't pay rent. Pay about £20/month in council tax.

Right there would save us a bomb.