I do not know anyone who is having a 'party' living on benefits....post here if you do

[electra]

On MN, I keep reading on many different threads that Labour has been giving away loads of money in benefits to people who don't really need it which has caused the financial crisis.

All the people I know who rely on their tax credits and have children seem to have to watch every penny. I do not see evidence of them having any sort of 'party' life.

I had thought the banks were mostly responsible for the financial crisis by lending money that didn't exist.

Can anyone correct me on this? I'm open to different opinions.

Exactly. You couldn't afford it because being on benefits means no disposable income.

Maybe you should see it from the other side of the fence; imagine you and DP working like twats and paying ridiculous tax, not being able to afford various bits and bobs and realising that actually, the very people benefitting from your taxation can afford these lovely bits and bobs. Frustrating isn't the word.

Yup - there are SOME people who are having a party.

I know of two in particular - both fraud I think - one got a disabled sibling from overseas and took over their 'care' to get benefits and the other breezed into the country and got a council flat for her and her little baby - and the mum is having a real bloody party but has made little effort to do things for herself.

It does make me mad as we've done all we can to provide for ds and we have very little inspite of us having had a high joint income and we saved and saved.

But the benefits issue is more to do with fraud I think.

Social housing is another issue - we know of one couple - the wife has been here 6 years - speaks no english - yet is an expert on social housing rules and is just waiting for her lo to turn 5 so she can get a two bed then she plans another. We could never afford to have another. Her dh earns the same as mine. We just about manage to struggle with a mortgage on the same money and I know people who have nothing and would never get a council property.

Nothing illegal there but I was horrified how easily she got sucked into the 'what can I get out of this'. I'm horrified by her sense of entitlement particularly given her background back in her country.

Equally I know people who have genuinely fallen on hard times and get no support - one in particular who was a uni with me and at the age of 43 she's in a bedsit, having looked after her disabled mother until she passed away, with no prospect of anything better - but she's working and that's all she can afford and she's grateful.

It's the nature of our benefits.

Cheeky - Why on earth would you give your e-mail address linked to your Facebook account? Five seconds and anyone can see you real name and those of your boys. Do you actually WANT villagers to show up with pitchforks?

I have said it before and i will say it again, and again until its in peoples heads. I am not claiming for any benefits other than CTC/WTC & CB. What am i doing wrong? I renewed my tax credits, got a lump sum from them that they owed us which i got confirmation on that it was correct. I even have bought a second hand washer as mine broke, is that wrong of me too? Everything we have had in our home is SECOND hand, everything is passed onto us the only thing that was brand new when we moved in here was the sofas which MIL bought for us. We had given beds, wardrobes, Tvs, kettles, everything. So why not treat ourselves after 3 years for fucking shit.

My FB is locked to anyone not on my FB and di dont show my address or anything on there so..... all you can see is my tattoo profile pic

I think people are just confused cheeky because in an earlier post you said 'I know how hard it is on benefits'.

I work for a bank (in a branch so I dont get massive bonuses before I get flamed) and the level of Personal debt is shocking. Over the last 10 years the expectations of an acceptable standard of living includes nice cars, foreign hols and flat screen tv's.

National debt is a massive problem and the banks are to blame however on the flip side no one slagged off banks when they were making massive profits paying loads of tax and keeping the country afloat. Im fed up of people saying its too easy to get credit and I shouldnt have been able to get into this level of debt.
People have to take responsibilty they apply for numerous loans / credit cards and lie about the ones they already have. Even credit ref checks wont bring them up if they know how to play the system (in how quickly they apply for them all).
I think GB is a scapegoat as well even Germany was hit by the GLOBAL credit crunch and they are world renowned for their financial control.
I work pt and DH is a firefighter and we manage, we go camping for hols and look out for good deals for anything we buy. We have always been careful with money and the only debt we have is the mortgage because we were both bought up to save for the things you want. I think eduction is a big issue here and children need to receive more common sense financial advice at school but more importantly from their parents. This is the only way we will stop the ignorance that has encouraged this level of personal debt.
Sorry rant over Im going for a lie down.

By CoteDAzur Tue 04-May-10 16:45:06
Cheeky - Why on earth would you give your e-mail address linked to your Facebook account? Five seconds and anyone can see you real name and those of your boys. Do you actually WANT villagers to show up with pitchforks

Reported - to Delete lol.

Crazycatlady Tue 04-May-10 16:48:24
I think people are just confused cheeky because in an earlier post you said 'I know how hard it is on benefits.

Yes i do. For the last year we have scrimped and save on my wage which was full time then part time for a while. Up to beginning of April we was struggling, we was saving all our money and making do. Then we renewed our tax credits, which was a godsend because due to the end of year calculations where your TC drop towards april, we was shagged. Our TC dropped by £250 and we was struggling. But now because last year income was based on £16,000 and we have no gone to an annual income 09-2010 of less than £8,000 we are on maximum Tax Credits.

I have never in my life, had an annual income that low. I was shocked that it was so low. that was because my DH was a SAHD and i went to work full time, then changed to part time. Now because we are in the tax year 2010-2011 and you give details of income from 2009-2010 then our annual income to tax credits is -£8,000

'And the Government only pay towards the first £100,000 of mortgage. I have to pay the difference.'

only?

You have an asset to sell that an increasing number of people will never have a chance in hell at owning.

My best friend's BiL got made redundant from his job three years ago. He has 2 LOs under 5. I know for a fact that he hasn't attended any interview that the Job Centre set up for him. His parents have been paying his rent/food bills. Not so long ago, he got a £500 grant from JobSeekers and he went and spent it on a bull mastiff. Nice, huh? Not "let's buy the kids some new clothes" or "let's pay my parents back some of the money I owe to them"

I would have reported him to the benefits office but I doubt they'd have done much.

I don't doubt it's been hard cheeky. Tax credits are not the same as living on benefits though and I think that's where the confusion has come from.

Tbh, I think it is very difficult to know how certain people have / afford certain things.

Does it not come down to what your priorities are?

I know a single guy who has a minimum wage job, and doesn't appear to have much money but he has a clearly expensive massive plasma television that people talk about.

Some people spend a lot of money on food (I do but have to miss out on other things because good food is a priority for me), some spend a lot on clothes, some on alcohol (when I say a lot I mean proportionally to what your income is)

Some people save their money - some have a lot of debts to pay off.

I agree Electra.

But like someone above said - benefits are there for people when they are struggling financially and have no disposable income/savings.

Benefits are paid for by tax that we all pay, therefore it grates on people when those who are on benefits are seemingly able to afford things that would be considered luxuries, that perhaps they can't afford even though they are working.

But maybe they buy those things at the expense of what most would consider essential iyswim?

'But maybe they buy those things at the expense of what most would consider essential iyswim?'

Fair enough if they don't have kids who are going without essentials because of it.

Ive got a bit of a tangent here and am willing to be corrected if this is wrong, but I believe that WTC/CTC does not take into account any maintenance payments the absent parent makes for the childrens upkeep.

For example

I have a friend who is a single mother with one child and earns a mid-range wage. Her xp is extremely well paid and pays her mortgage, often in lumps, buys her a new car every 3 years (to take the child around) and supplies her with maintenance - which he SHOULD.

However - she can still claim WTC/CTC for her childcare.

My dh is studying full time and I do earn a wee bit more than my friend, and hes working around studying to help out with the bills, but I cant claim for childcare because hes not working enough hours.

Yeah Im a bit jealous but thats the system thats wrong surely?

Also and totally seperately I have a problem with people making a lifestyle choice to have children and not work. I realise most people on benefits arent there through choice but its those few that ARE that end up getting the headlines and thats why theres bad feeling.

Electra - I agree

We've been scrimping for a while now - I gave up work (two of us working 12 hour days) as I thought it would be cheaper to try and have a child naturally then have IVF (we were on the lists). So we really cut down our lifestyle.

At the same time I have friends who are freelance who claim poverty BUT insist on their £90 per month gym, nights out 4 times per week (and taxis home) and their holidays and have got into huge debt.

But, at the same time, no matter how hard people work and how efficient they are with their money, there are some people who will remain poor. And that's sad.

"Maybe you should see it from the other side of the fence; imagine you and DP working like twats and paying ridiculous tax, not being able to afford various bits and bobs and realising that actually, the very people benefitting from your taxation can afford these lovely bits and bobs."

But the fault with that logic is that you are then assuming that those on benefits have never paid taxes themselves.

I have worked by arse off with no disposable income, I have paid taxes etc.

Now due to a shitload of stupid reasons I'm reliant on the same system that I paid into when I was working. The same system that would be there for you if you needed it.

The benefits system isn't working against working people. The minimum wage system is, been there, done that.

I've also been on JSA.

I know which one I prefer.

'but I believe that WTC/CTC does not take into account any maintenance payments the absent parent makes for the childrens upkeep.'

Not sure abuot WTC/CTC, but Income Support does not take maintenance into account.

And tax credits won't take into account his paying the mortgage or buying her a car, no.

I suppose i am fortunate enough to not be eligable for any sort of credits/benifits.

However i still dont see that my daily lifestyle is that much better because of my h salary.
I have friends on benefits and quite frankly i can see no incentive to work - they have pretty much what they want from life without having to do a days work. It is not all easy i know but it sure aint hard enough for them to want to work either.

A friend recently lost his job and i was appalled that he had no 'back-up' savings - the govenment basically have to pay for his rent and give him money each week to live. Now i know it isnt a huge sum but he still manages to run a car, mobile phone, broadband sky tv etc He also gets free dentist/opticians and prescriptions. - when he does return to work he now feels he needs to earn a huge amount to actually be better off. The longer it goes on the less chance there is for him to want to work at all.

We on the other hand have enough saved so as to be hopefully be able to live for about a year if it did happen - we would be penalised because of this despite the fact that in our time we have paid a lot into the system and h still does.

There is an imbalance but how to really help people is the problem.

I certainly dont begrudge anyone on benefits but maybe there is just no shame in it?

HappyWoman, I was trying to explain to DH why sometimes I think I'd be better off going on the dole than working (I only work sixteen hours a week) I know I'd only get £66 dole dosh p/w but it's the other shite I'd get such as free dental work (I need three fillings and some root canal work, can't afford it), I could go swimming three times a week to help my sciatica for £1 a go instead of £4 (can't afford that either) and free prescriptions. I would be better off and could spend more time with DS.

But then my self-pride tells me that even though being on the rock 'n' roll might benefit me financially, working for pretty much minimum wage is actually teaching DS more about what life should be like than sitting on my arse with my hand out.

Yep noone wants to see the return to the old days where you were thrown into the workhouse (I hope!)

The problem is that by helping those who need it there will always end up being a way for those who are opportunistic to exploit the system. Also theres all the issues about long term benefits and the mental wellbeing/confidence decline (not mental illness - dont all jump down my throat - the evidence shows that working does increase your sense of wellbeing and confidence in your abilities, and the longer you are out of work the harder it is to get back into it) and also lack of ambition/expectation of anything better and frankly there isnt enough work to go around anyway.....

As for my friend - its hard not to feel just a bit jealous.......

There's a single mother down the road with five kids, four different fathers, disabled and so she's got a brand new car and every week she's at M & S buying her shopping and her children all wear designer brands....

Nope that Daily Mail view really isn't true.

Like I said, I LOVE the welfare system. I might be unfortunate enough to need to rely it myself one day, you never know what's round the corner etc. But if that ever does happen, I would not be able to show my face if I spent my benefits on extravagances. Benefits are there to help those really struggling to make ends meet. They're not there to help those who can't afford the bare essentials to afford stuff that working families might not be able to. Simples.