to be stunned at the waiting lists for Rainbows/Brownies/girl guides

[Gigantaur]

I have been speaking to the county guides co ordinator.
Apparently there is such a shortage of adult volunteers to help out with the clubs that the waiting lists are huge!
she said that there are currently something like 50,000 children on the waiting list around the country.

She said that she has heard of people registering their daughters onto the list at birth. and that at one branch locally she has a girl aged 14 months on the list!
She told me that the chances are that I wouldn't get dd (5.8) into rainbows at all and instead she would just about get a place at brownies aged 8.

luckily I managed to get Dd a place at an almost local branch but still. Its such a shame.

it made me wonder why there is such a sudden shortage. Do you think it's because women are too busy juggling work and homelife to have time to spare? are people scared of being branded a "peedo"?
or is youth work simply not a fashionable hobby?

either way, im glad DD got a place, but i feel sad for those that can't.

haven't read whole thread so sorry if it's already been said-

my sister runs a Guide group even though it really draws on the precious little free time she has (3dcs and runs her own business)

She won't give it up because without her the group would close down (and obv she also enjoys it)

I really do get fed up though with parents turning up at the end without saying thankyou to her, this especially grates on me at the end of a week long camp when they don't even bother getting out of their cars to acknowledge the fact that she has been taking care of their daughter for a week for nothing!

I am registered as a unit helper so I can help her out when she needs me and recently a parent was 45 minutes late collecting her dd and a friend, didn't bother getting out of the car or apologising. In fact instead lying about what time she left home (we had called her house and her dh answered)

With those kinds of attitudes it's no wonder they are short of volunteers. (might not be like that everywhere though we live in a bit of la di da borough )

Girlsyearsapart - You're quite right about the attitude of a minority of parents. One year, we had church parade on the morning of Mothering Sunday. I had to hang around for an hour afterwards - time that I would have preferred to spend with my mum and my child - because one Brownie's parents simply didn't appear. When after several attempts I reached her dad, he told me very rudely that he could not come to fetch her because he was spending the morning with his mother. I am not often lost for words, but ....

As for being 'forced' to volunteer with children with disabilities ... I agree with Amanda to the extent that people whose first motivation was to work with children with disabilities would probably gravitate towards an organisation other than Scouting or Guiding. But, even so, I would have thought that all volunteers in Scouting and Guiding would understand and support the idea that we are open to everybody. Turning away a child with a disability hardly fits with the Guide promise. I'm sure it is about fear and lack of knowledge, but it's still wrong.

The chance of losing the God element from Guiding is so remote I'm not sure it's worth debating. But it is nowadays about spirituality rather than Christianity. I've heard of volunteers being turned away because of not believing in God but everyone around here seems to adopt a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

amanda - i get completely what you're saying about mismanagement of volunteers, but the problem is that the DCs etc are all volunteers themselves, and in my experience not well trained in managing other volunteers, they're mostly under hugh pressure and just want to fill the empty holes they have.
i actually wonder if it might make sense to have some paid volunteer managers within each county???

as for the god element, i'm a complete atheist and a little bit uncomfortable with religion but i am respectful of the church where we meet and the vicar and their beliefs, i encourage our unit to help at coffee mornings etc but we do not participate in services. the only exception to me personally participating in services etc is that i do rememberence sunday sometimes.

The role of the DC is fundamentally flawed I agree, it's a nightmare job. There's no way on earth I'd consider taking it on. What a good idea to have some paid administrators, it's just hard to see how we'd fund those core costs.

I think the Scounts have a much better system, my understanding is that they have a DC for each section instead of for all sections in the district - is that right?

the guide division i was in before my current one is trying the DC for each section approach - it was because they couldn't fill the normal DC positions. i'm not sure why but they found it slightly less hard to fill sectional DC positions than area based ones.
it's considered an experiment and i've no idea how it's going but i wish them luck.

Asmallbunchofflowers I think you have to appreciate there are limits to what people believe they are able to take on and bringing a child with disabilities into the unit is going to be a challenge too far for some overstretched leaders without the right support. All I'm saying is that rapping people on the knuckles with the Disability Discrimination Act isn't necessarily the best way to help them or help yourself.

I know when I was 19 and almost single handedly running a very challenging Brownie unit in Inner city London, rightly or wrongly, a new joiner with a disability I didn't know much about would have been one heck of a daunting prospect for me.

I do appreciate that, Amanda, really I do. And I agree that beating people over the head with the DDA isn't the best approach - as someone (was it you?) said earlier, it is far better to work with people and try to deal with the practical issues together. But I'm still convinced that the way forward is to seek advice from the district inclusion adviser and through them (one hopes) gain access to any extra resources which might be needed, rather than say that one finds it all too difficult or daunting and one would rather not bother. I am very uncomfortable with the idea of picking and choosing who we accept as members.

To be honest, I find running my challenging inner city Brownie pack single-handed quite a trial at times and I wouldn't at the moment know how to welcome Riven's daughter and meet her needs. But I would (I hope and trust) have the gumption to find out. I know it sounds very trite, but I do think that whingeing that it's all too difficult is out of keeping with the ethos of Guiding (or Scouting).

Not read everything, but just wanted to say that having read this earlier, it reminded me that I wanted to get into volunteering with guiding (I was a rainbow, brownie, guide & then a young helper with guides) but moved area for uni, so I sent an email to the local co-ordinator offering my services, only to be told:

'Thank you for getting in touch. It is really good to hear from people who want to put a bit back into Guiding.

My role is to help you find a unit that suits your availability/location etc. If you can fill in the attached form and email it back to me I can use the information to find you a suitable unit. I have to warn you that we have been slightly overwhelmed with student volunteers this year so it may take a while to find you somewhere but please be assured I will try my hardest to find you something.'

So they can't be that desperate, in Sheffield at least

Springy - Move to London! The publicity around the centenary has brought us plenty of girls but not so many adult volunteers!

It'd be a bit of a commute

I'm irrationally annoyed, actually - it feels like a bit of a slap in the face! Almost like they feel that they're doing me a favour with something to put on my CV, when in reality I was just trying to be helpful to an association which has given me a lot of pleasure over the years.

I am possibly pre-menstrual though, so I'll not dwell on it too much!

I can understand your annoyance, but I think part of the problem is the clumsy wording of the letter - which seems to dwell on the coordinator's problems rather than your offer of your time. It's bad form, I think, to grumble about having too many volunteers.

I completely agree with you.

some areas get LOTS of student volunteers and they all arrive at once, it's very hard to find out which units need help, but don't need it so badly that they'll be stuck come exam time.

i know, i've been both a student guider and a guider with student helpers, the long holidays are a problem as most students have longer holidys than the guides themselves so they have to be additional helpers rather than essential for every meeting.

Riven DS has CP -no speech, no independent movement. He has done both beavers and cubs and loved them both.

We use our direct payments to pay for a carer to take him. She is CRB checked by us for Ben and that has been fine with both groups.

I must admit having helped at several beaver sessions it is my idea of hell - 20 6-8 year old boys, racing round, talking about bottoms and making rude noises! Cubs is a lot better organised but give me brownies/guides any day!

But fluffles, I'm here all the time - I'm offering my services as a full-time helper. I live here with my son & husband; I don't go back to my parents every holiday.

wow! What a long thread! I help out from time to time on the rota for guidess i have for brownies and rainbow before that. Never been crb'd for that role tho' sometimes happen to hold a crb as i was a school governor. We 'have' to do a turn about twice a term. Its no big deal and we swap around among those of us who can/cant manage it that evening. We also have an informal liftshare too for those in our village as none of the sessions are here.

I love helping out but dont feel able to be permanent leader type person but might do in the future.
For those people wanting to do so try do-it.org for volunteering opportunities in your postcode area, they should all be listed there.
I've found all leaders i've come across to be passionate and committed to thethos. Some play down god and queen which suits us , but retain the committment to girls' activities (which i like, i think my dd benefits from girl only time at present)

CRB checks are not available for occasional helpers. Also they are transferable from one organisation to another - but it's then a matter for each organisation to take a view on whether a check gives adequate protection. The tendancy is to err on the side of caution and recheck.

Have you been in touch with the county inclusion coordinator Riven? I'm sure HQ can put you in touch with someone.

asmallbunch you're so right some of the parental attitudes beggar belief!

wrt the religious and disability arguments- in my sister's group they are mainly children from the c of e school but there are children there regardless of religion and my sister makes sure she does the least amount of religious stuff as possible because in all honesty it's not really what the girls want to do/hear about. They prefer to have fun & learn new skills.

She currently has one girl in a wheelchair who can also use a walking frame and another with additional needs so does take any child who gets to top of waiting list.

You have to jump through so many hoops to become a Guider it does put people off. The problem is CRB checks aren't transferrable so people are put off by filling in the form again. The new ISA scheme might smooth things out though. Many units rely on 1 full Guider and a rota of parent helpers who don't need all the checks. Men can be unit helpers - I've seen men going up to get long service awards! I think another issue is Trefoil Guilds are less active and less inclined to help now as well.

I would put my children down at birth if a) I had any yet and b) we were in the UK, but I was very involved in Guiding! They do make waiting lists look longer but I organised my waiting list on the computer in columns - name, DOB, number on waiting list, centralised division waiting list number (some people put their names down for more than 1 unit) etc. So then if number 1 on the waiting list was 2yo the place went to the next girl who was old enough. We conacted people when a place was coming up to see if they were still interested and just worked our way down.

There's also a loophope in legislation which allows leaders children outside the age-range to be present as long as you're still within ratios and they sign a waiver. I've had parent helpers who have sat at the side with a babe in arms, BFing and being the body that I needed there. 1 leader can handle a pack of Brownies if you plan your activity around the involvement of the parents you can have.

2rebecca - you don't have to 'profess' anything. If you want to make your promise your LQ mentor will talk it through with you and many atheists have found a way to do it. The promise has changed to reflect diversity and be acceptable to those of all faiths and none - it's now expressing a belief in 'my God' which can be God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, peace or money...

riven - I know several people at GHQ who would be appallled, including one the disability/equal opps/inclusion (whatever it's called) working groups. CAT me if I can help. That attitude makes me so ESPECIALLY as it's not a ratio issue. The most rewarding experience I ever had as a Brownie Guider was helping a 7yo with Cerebral Palsy join in activities with all the other girls and seeing them accept her. It can be done. There is no excuse. The PA doesn't need a separate CRB as a) they're not left alone with the other girls and b) they're not a Guider. Scouts I can't help with but there are lots of other

Amanda - CRBs are not transferrable. If you look at the top they are issued for a specific position within a specific organisation. At present you are checked against POCA, POVA or List 99 (depending on your position) and with varying degrees of thoroughness. The ISA checks will be transferrable. Organisations have to recheck a) for insurance to ensure that person is fit for that role (there may be subtle differences) and b) because CRBs are out of date the minute they're printed.

They are. That's a Guide Association policy decision not to rely on them - and in fairness my advice is always to do your own. Those lists have been replaced now by the ISA's two barring lists.

I am a Guide and Ranger Leader in Bucks, we have a waiting list which most parents put their children on at about age 9.

I have been a leader for 15 years so I have seen a lot of changes. I think the CRB check is necessary, it takes 5 minutes to fill in the form and it only has to be done every three years.

The Leadership Qualification can be completed within months and is there to show that you can adequately run a unit and not just set the girls colouring tasks each week.

I am very proud to be a member of Girlguiding, we have our red tape problems like everyone else buit we are attempting to cut some of it.

Yes some parents use us as a babysitting service (especially at brownie age) but I would rather they were with us doing domething useful than sat at home watching TV.

I am a single mum with a 10 year old and when she was little she came with me. If you want to become a leader then take your child, boy or girl, they will get as much use and enjoyment as the Guides themselves.

As it was posted earlier, we have 50,000 girls waiting for places across the country. It is a shame that so many miss out on our great organisation because parents think they can't help.

At risk of outing myself, I was involved in Guiding (as a girl and leader) and in Scouting (as a young person) for quite some years (G/B/SS).

The disability issue is a difficult one, and is the main reason I stopped (I went from helping with/running three age groups, to moving to a new area to be told it would be fine if I 'just came and watched').

I agree that with a full-time PA there should be no issues in either organisation...but as others have said, there is a lot of poor attitude/misinformation around still.