to be stunned at the waiting lists for Rainbows/Brownies/girl guides

[Gigantaur]

I have been speaking to the county guides co ordinator.
Apparently there is such a shortage of adult volunteers to help out with the clubs that the waiting lists are huge!
she said that there are currently something like 50,000 children on the waiting list around the country.

She said that she has heard of people registering their daughters onto the list at birth. and that at one branch locally she has a girl aged 14 months on the list!
She told me that the chances are that I wouldn't get dd (5.8) into rainbows at all and instead she would just about get a place at brownies aged 8.

luckily I managed to get Dd a place at an almost local branch but still. Its such a shame.

it made me wonder why there is such a sudden shortage. Do you think it's because women are too busy juggling work and homelife to have time to spare? are people scared of being branded a "peedo"?
or is youth work simply not a fashionable hobby?

either way, im glad DD got a place, but i feel sad for those that can't.

I really don't like the waiting lists-it means that the child from a disadvantaged background, who would really benefit,doesn't stand a hope of getting in.

Only read the OP, but yes, I can believe how long the waiting lists are, as I run a Rainbows unit! We had 2 in our area, one of them closed down so we then get double the number of girls on the waiting list. They are utterly ridiculous - Girlguiding have gone out promoting Rainbows/Brownies etc but I'm not sure if they stopped to think about the volunteers who need to be available to run all these groups! In my area, it boils down to the fact that there are quite simply not enough volunteers to run the groups! We've also had to cancel a couple of meetings because alot of the parents simply can't/won't give up an hour of their time to help out (and as with all volunteers, it's always the same ones who do end up helping out!). [I'm coming back after drop-off to read the whole thread!]

When I was 3 my mum put me on the waiting list for the local Rainbows group. They called my mum to offer me a place when I was 12!

I am really sorry you have had this experience Riven, but not all groups are run like the ones you describe. My friend runs a very large and successful Guide group, and has always made extra effort to include children who have particular/ additional needs whatever they may be in the broadest sense. This is SW London. She is inspirational to them all and amazing, and I am sure there are plenty like her, but sadly not in your experience.

Riven and others who have been turned down because of disabilities/special needs.. this is unacceptable

I have been a brownie guider for more years than I like to admit and one of the main ethos of the organisation is that we include everyone. Nothing should be a bar to joining the guide assoc
You should take this as far as you can in writing .. Chief Guide if you have to .

Riven I dont know the full story with your daughter so forgive me if I am wrong but your daughter doesnt have a long life expectancy does she? If I am right thenlife experiences that she will get in the guide assoc are even more valuable

Our assistant guider left for a job in cambridge before the summer last year and I asked the parents for someone to help.. they are all too busy/cant commit/dont know what they could do etc etc.. result the pack has been closed ... and there is now pressure on other packs in the area

well said mary

Riven, just reading your posts here has made me feel angry and upset. I hope this is resolved soon. But just one question--would you want her to be with this group if they've already been so unwelcoming?

Hocuspontas--you're right about the demand for volunteers. We always seem to be volunteers for two or three children's activities at any time. I have to say no now to other requests, or tell the children they can't join new groups, because it all got too much for me last year, when a medical showed that my blood pressure and cholesterol had shot up. I think it was the stress of trying to do too much. I had to stand back and remind myself that our family would fall to bits if I became seriously ill.

So now I do just three things. And try and make sure I'm not doing all of them every week.

I'm shocked by some of the behaviour of parents at groups who seem to treat the parent volunteers as paid lackeys! How dare they.

Riven ? I too am distressed to hear about your experiences.

As I said earlier, Scouts and Guides are separate organisations, but share the same ethos and I imagine that the systems we have in Guiding are more or less replicated in Scouting. In Guiding we are committed to inclusion and have county inclusion advisers who are available to help leaders with any issues about welcoming children with disabilities. Can you track down the inclusion adviser for your area? I?m sure Scouting volunteers here will help with the detective work.

To be frank, I am guessing that the issue here is the issue we have in Guiding (around here, anyway) where a small number of leaders don?t want to toe the line on whatever issue and there doesn?t seem to be much that commissioners can or will do about it. The leader you?ve encountered probably has exaggerated fears about how the troop will meet your daughter?s needs or a ?does she take sugar? attitude to whether she will gain anything from being a Scout.

Good luck.

Oh my bloody god Riven, that's appalling. Absolutely appalling. I'm utterly and on you and your dd's behalf.

pisces - in our unit, where the girls live doesn't enter into the equation as to whether or not they get a place - two things are taken into account (1) when they were put on the list and (2) whether they will be 5 years old when the next place comes available. BUT I'm not sure if this a Guiding-wide practice (I'd like to think it is) or just for our area.

I agree with Pisces that there is a downside to waiting lists - it is the girls with difficult home circumstances who are least likely to be put on the waiting list as a baby (which is why I generally don't put names on the list until they're about 5.

We don't have a 'catchment' area either and some girls travel past other [inferior] [only joking] units to get to ours. For many, it's about being with their friends or meeting on a convenient day/time and they'd rather join our long waiting list than a shorter one elsewhere.

This thread has reminded me that there is a Guiders' staff room in 'extra curricular activities'. Maybe we should revive it? I'd love to hear from Guiders who have got plenty of help - especially warranted help - how they have achieved it. Scouting leaders would be welcome too, despite the thread title!

I'll go and put the kettle on ....

Riven, I too am absolutely disgusted at the attitude of the Scout leader who refused to take your child on the grounds of her medical background.

Try calling the Scout Association Headquarters on 0845 300 1818 and ask for the Special Needs Office.

Explain your daughter's needs to them and ask them to contact the District Commissioner for your area. He or she should be reading the riot act to this Group/Leader. If there were genuine practical considerations for turning her down, that's one thing, but to discriminate against her in this way is appalling.

What do people think of Boys/Girls Brigade as an alternative?

One of the reasons for the lack of adults is the response some volunteers can get though. I volunteered to help with my local guide pack as DH was volunteering with sea scouts those evenings - pre DC. I contacted the local group - heard nothing. I contacted head office - heard nothing.

Eventually after a few emails saying I really was interested, I had a letter saying how pleased they were that I wanted to be a guide but there was a waiting list because of lack of volunteers. Hello, yes I know - I'm trying to reduce the waiting list. In the end I got fed up and gave up trying and then got pregnant anyway so quite enjoyed the evenings sitting around eating cake.

Before anyone asks, the CRB check would have been fine and I was volunteering at the weekends with an activity group for children with autism and in a school so not a completely random request.

i'm a guide guider (7-9pm so easier for getting home from work, i've no idea how anybody can get home for rainbows meeting times if they work)

we have always been very including of people with additional needs but do often need to make sure we have enough adults to support this.

we have about 26 girls which means we need three adults for ratio reasons. two adult leaders/helpers have left this year and now we have a pool of 3, all of us have jobs which involve a little bit of travel so when one can't make it to guides we have to hope that two girls fail to turn up so we hit our 1:12 ratio! I wouldn't be willing to risk this if we had any girls who needed more support than our current group (one girl with mild learning difficulties) so would have to keep the unit down to 24 girls, but i'd be willing to do that to include somebody keen who could benefit from the expeirence.

We have 8 girls on the waiting list but cannot risk taking any more without another adult. we have begged parents to help and have only had one offer (out of 25 sets of parents, not to mention step-parents), parents helping just once under supervision don't need a disclosure.

We have one girl i know of leaving this summer so that means we'll still have 7 on the waiting list.... absolutely nothing i can do about this

Working parents may still be able to volunteer, even if they can't make it to meetings. For example, they could prepare craft materials for the pack, or be a badge tester (something that could be done occasionally, or at weekends). It doesn't help the ratio issue, but is still a huge contribution.

I probably would have volunteered with an older kid(so can do when home from work) woodcraft folk group, but there wasn't one locally and I was willing to help, not set one up.

I only read the OP ,but round here there is no waiting list . We have 2 Brownie packs in the village.
The one DD attends has brown /snowy/tawny owl and a junior leader.