to be annoyed about CRB checking?

[vivie]

I've been asked to fill out a CRB check form so I can help with ds's Beavers group. I'm really happy to do my bit and help, but I've got better things to do than be filling out this immense form, especially as I won't have any of the beavers under my supervision alone (leaders would always be present, do any first aid, etc) and I'll only every be helping in the village hall, occasionally and never at camp etc. I have a CRB check already for helping at my kids' school. I have nothing to disclose and nothing to hide. Of course we need to help our children be safe but I think all this safeguarding is intrusive and unnecessary and puts volunteers off and it would be easier to chuck it in the bin and watch the telly instead. I'm sure this is what many do.

"But for volunteer roles of the type discussed here it seems utterly ridiculous and OTT. Does anyone honestly think that someone who is going to help out with a group of kids in the Church hall for a few hours now and again could pose such a risk that it is worth this amount of beaurocracy?"

5foot5 - yes, this is a very real issue. This is just the sort of 'relaxed' situation which a peadophile targets. Am aware of very similiar situation to this locally - seemingly respectable father offering to help out at youth club. Only it turned out he wasn't so respectable....

Yanbu. I had to get crb checked to help my own dd get changed at a school swimming lesson.

Dh has 5 crb forms for 5 different schools and still needed one to help at ds2's school orchestra. Insanity.

"Does anyone honestly think that someone who is going to help out with a group of kids in the Church hall for a few hours now and again could pose such a risk that it is worth this amount of beaurocracy?"

Yes, absolutely. Some people in that situation pose an enormous risk. The trouble is, they are hard to spot until it's too late. So the rest of us, who have no ulterior motives, should be prepared to live with the bureaucracy, even though it is a bit cumbersome.

(I have three CRBs, for different organisations. I have probably spent about 90 minutes in total filling in forms, over the past three years. Not too onerous, really.)

"it will just create needless paper work, red tape and increased paranoia."

Not to mention the cost for each organisation involved (that means books and other items in the case of schools), plus the increased load on the police staff to check the forms.

It sounds from the numbers of CRB checks that some people have posted about like burocracy gone mad. I can see the logic in some cases, but where people are not going to be left alone (and the case of the taxi trip in particular) it seems OTT. Also, can see the OP's viewpoint, seems very intrusive.

I'd be hardly surprised if such things as Beavers and so on grind to a halt in a few years, with more people rebelling against these checks.

I was one of those volunteers that couldn't be bothered. I now help out at an animal charity instead.

And no I don't have anything to hide.

Doesn't the cost and administrative burden have to be considered relative to the benefits? Surely it isn't beyond the wit of government to work out how much this scheme costs in cash and time relative to the number of children it (theoretically) saves from abuse? There may be alternatives that are more effective and prevent abuse before it happens, but we dont currently know what these are without some research data.

Do schools pay for CRB checks? If so, what do they pay per year on average?

The playgroup pays £50 per check I believe. It's a lot of money for very small organisations.

It's complete bollocks-like most 'security procedures'.
Merely created to let the great unwashed believe they are being looked after.

You can change your name slightly for each one-I know people who have done this and they 'pass' (not doing so because they are child molesters but because they do not want to disclose other entirely irrelevant stuff, such as political activity).

I work in a public sector job where demand far exceeds supply and we have new staff twiddling thumbs in the office for weeks while CRB check is 'processed'.

for volunteers it's £6 per check.

I think we have reached a stage where we have to accept that some of this screening needs to be dropped or reduced, or else volunteer groups that benefit children quite profoundly will cease to run. This, IMHO, is a bigger risk to children in general than is the very, very small risk that a paedophile will infiltrate some of these organisations. We are also much more clued up now about grooming than we were even a decade ago. So are children.

I know this is controversial but people are being put off volunteering. I turned down a request to help at a youth club because I am already helping out in three other organisations and can't take on more. There aren't enough volunteers to go round as it is.

Only just spotted this thread, having been elsewhere for the last 10 days.

Speaking as a Beaver Leader, much as I deplore the CRB system for the work it gives me, I would like to point out to the OP that I have just spent NINE HOURS this weekend on paperwork for my Beaver Colony. Registers, Lodges, Newsletters, Letters to new Beavers, Parent Rotas, Programmes, Letters and permission forms for visits and yes, CRBs.

And you can't be bothered to fill out a form that takes FIVE MINUTES? You only have to complete sections A, C and H, plus D if you have moved recently. Name, address, NI number, phone number and date and place of birth. How difficult is that?

Throw the form in the bin? Great - that really helps your BSL, because if everyone isn't checked, she has to go through the list of those who are and aren't checked every time she needs a parent helper. And she will be getting flak for not having everyone CRBed. And when your DC is a Cub they will camp and so might you, so someone will have to give you another form then anyway. All more hassle for Leaders who really need more hours of paperwork.

YAB completely U.

I am CRB checked for the school i work at in Suffolk. In my son's school in Kent i am not allowed to walk around without a member of staff with me because my CRB check wasnt done for my son's school!

I'm sure I've moaned about this recently but here goes again! All the volunteers helping backstage at our dance show in June need to be CRB checked this year. Fair enough. I have an enhanced CRB and all I needed to do was send a copy of this off with a signed application form.
Unfortunately as I live in a different county to where the show is being performed my application was rejected and so I was referred to my own county offices who duly sent me the forms to fill in.
An inch thick of paperwork arrived to read through telling me to fill in a 6 page application form with referees, a list of my previous work with children to assess my suitability and a handwritten letter addressed to county detailing why I wanted to be a chaperone. When I had done that I was to arrange an interview during office hours at County Hall 10 miles away where they would decide whether or not to rubber stamp me.
I'm afraid I baled out. I REALLY don't have time to go through that for 2 hours voluntary work. Sorry.

I dont honestly believe that CRB checks ensure the safety of our children ,anyone without a criminal record can get one , in other words anyone clever enough NOT to be caught can get one

I hear you! I am fuming over the whole CRB thing. I had one check in November, now have to get a new check for being a school governor. CRB checks cost the school a huge amount of money; and it is a complete illusion that they 'keeps our children safe'. The vast majority of crimes committed against children are by their families/people they know; THEY don;t get CRB-checked. And CRB checks can't tell you who hurts children, just who has a previous conviction - which might be totally unrelated, yet still preclude the person from volunteering or working with kids. It's a complete bloody farce.

I read an interesting article in the paper a couiple of months ago that specialist surgeons are unable to operate on children at hospitals other than their own, as they need CRB checks each time.

So seriously ill children either have to tracel miles to the surgeon's own hospital, or life-saving operations are delayed while CRB checks are processed!

Another vicotry for child safety!

I have given up being a school governor (I could go into school as a mum but not as a governor - who decides what I am???) and helping out at the swimming club - I needed a CRB check to sit in the lifeguard chair in full view of everyone but nobody in the viewing gallery did, or the old men looking down from the sauna, or anyone who wandered in off the street into the changing rooms - barmy! I also couldnt go backstage to help my daughter dress at her annual dance show but I could go into the changing rooms every week at practice and invite children back to stay at my house.

These thing make no sense whatsoever to me I am afraid - CRB checks are not fit for purpose and I do not believe they protect my children at all. I have just given up doing any volunteering that requires a CRB check and I dont take placement students under 18 any more at work. I can understand the necessity for chaperones on residential trips etc or anyone who is alone with children though.

I hate the feeling I must be dodgy somehow if I want to help out with children's activities. Am insulted and offended by it and if anyone thinks I am a danger to their children I wouldnt want to have anything to do with them anyway - no CRB check would allay my suspicions if I had them. I've been a mum for 20 years and I can think of lots of easier secretive ways of doing awful things to children than in full public view (I have thought about these things a lot over the years whilst raising my own children and keeping them safe).

Vivie,
the information you mention does not have to be filled in. Read the instructions for filling in the form and you might get on with it a bit better.

A CRB form does not ask for your GP's details or ask about present and past health. That must be just the play groups own form. You only have to fill in about 3 pages of the CRB form. It only takes about 15 minutes at the most to fill in.

Hocuspontas, the CRB check is only a small part of becoming a chaperone in the theatre.

The rest of it is so that all chaperones understand the rules and regs to do with children performing in the theatre (and indeed TV and film).

I'm sorry you felt you had to bow out but the LEa need to be sure that their licensed chaperones are suitable and are following the rules. These regulations go back years pre-dating the CRB checks by quite some time. The same licence that allows you to volunteer for the dance show also entitles youto chapeone children on film and TV sets.