to be annoyed about CRB checking?

[vivie]

I've been asked to fill out a CRB check form so I can help with ds's Beavers group. I'm really happy to do my bit and help, but I've got better things to do than be filling out this immense form, especially as I won't have any of the beavers under my supervision alone (leaders would always be present, do any first aid, etc) and I'll only every be helping in the village hall, occasionally and never at camp etc. I have a CRB check already for helping at my kids' school. I have nothing to disclose and nothing to hide. Of course we need to help our children be safe but I think all this safeguarding is intrusive and unnecessary and puts volunteers off and it would be easier to chuck it in the bin and watch the telly instead. I'm sure this is what many do.

YANBU - No other country that I have lived in around the world is so OTT and I have lived in a fair few. It proves nothing unless you have been convicted of a crime.

Sorry guys, but the ISA system is not going to replace CRB Disclosures. It is going to be as well as CRB Diclosures!

The ISA will be a one-off registration, which future employers/volunteer co-ordinators can inspect to make sure you haven't been banned from working with children. It does not comment on whether you are suitable for the specific job you are planning to undertake. That will remain the function of the CRB check, for the foreseeable future. (Although I have heard that they are making plans to have the CRB checks constantly updated, so you don't have to keep renewing them for each organisation.)

The reason you have to do a different one for each organisation is that the information provided by CRB can be different for different roles. The classic example is that a role which might involve driving children around will attract a check on driving offences, whereas those wouldn't be disclosed on a CRB check for a different job.

More seriously, it was recently explained to me that Disclosures for certain jobs might include information about other individuals living at the same address as the person applying for the Disclosure. Because, for example, you might invite children to your own home (for a social event or something). Whereas a teacher, for example, is highly unlikely to do that.

Since I know someone living locally who is unable to have children in her home because of something her husband has done, I now begin to see the value of having specific checks for each job. As someone who co-ordinates volunteers for church-based children's work, I would no longer accept a Disclosure obtained for a different organisation, because I cannot assume that it would have covered all the right information for the type of role I am recruiting for.

And all the forms I've seen have been only four pages long, of which you only have to complete two and a half. So I don't know what other form you've been given - maybe it's specific to Beavers?

Vivia, I really don't think that relying on someone else's judgement (as described in your last post) is good enough to declare you safe to work with children. Many people who are a threat appear perfectly normal, respectable! As someone with children I am sure you would expect more than that from people working with yours.

That isn't to say that the lack of 'joinedup think' isn't ridiculous. As a teacher I have just gone on a 6 wk placement to another school...I had to do a new CRB form at this new one even though they readily admitted the results wouldn't be back before I left again...yet they'd have to pay for it. Very silly.

The forms I've filled in have never been long.

I had to have a Disclosure Scotland check done, to travel with MY OWN DS!!!
My ds was having some problems at school a couple of years ago, so the school arranged for ds and myself to attend sessions with a support worker, one day a week, quite a distance away from the school, so they said they would provide a taxi for us to get there and back, they then produced the disclosure application forms and said that if i did not complete, i would not be able to travel with ds!
I could understand if other peoples dc were going to be present, fair enough, but my own ds, who i gave birth to, and who LIVES IN THE SAME HOUSE AS ME!!!
I asked what would happen if i had any convictions (i dont btw!), and they said i wouldnt be able to travel with ds, despite the fact we live together.
Common sense obviously no longer exists!!!

I wanted to help out at dd2's school but all volunteers must now be CRB checked. Fair enough - but I don't have a passport or a driving licence so no photographic ID - so apparently I can't be checked and can't help out. The school is desperate for volunteer helpers.

How do you have a bank account then....???

Might be worth investing in some kind of ID card, if a passport it too pricey (£77.50 I paid last month )

They are a royal PITA especially when you have moved a lot and have to get the exact dates right or your form is rejected

However, I also believe they are a product of our society. Other places don't have them because other places aren't so hysterical about child protection, and assuming that anyone who want to work with children is a kiddy fiddler.

Helping out with Rainbows / Brownies / Guides is easier - they do their CRB forms entirely online

I had to go to the District Comissioner's home, taking all my documents, and we did the whole thing on her computer. Typing in the numbers on my passport, driving licence, etc. Much quicker and easier than the paper forms. I got the response within 2 weeks.

Idontknowhowtohelpher You can be checked without photo ID. Have a look at the official guidance notes

boring, but that's the system in place at the moment, I am a club welfare officer and have to check all the crb forms and sign off id etc before sending them off.The forms we have are not intrusive or pages long, I do agree that there should be one form which covers various roles in different organisations, and I also agree that the checks only show up if you have been caught !! , but I still think some security system is better than none, it will at least deter people who have offended from applying for some of these roles.

Yes they are a PITA but they are necessary. How would you feel if someone with a conviction for a crime against a child got a job working with your children?

Lots of things are annoying - airport security, for example - but you put up with them for the greater good.

I've filled in two now and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. If David Cameron wants to turn us into a society of volunteers, this needs to stop.

'anyone can ring info through and they will investgate. It is their job to asses everything on file and give the employer a simple yes or no. The answer can change at anytime based on the info held.'

Sorry, I find this chilling. It's the 'anyone can ring' business. Suppose you fall out with the dinner lady at school? Or the TA? Can they ring up and make allegations against you which are then kept in a database?

The Stasi would have loved this.

I've got a CRB certificate and the form was four sides. I just isn't a problem as long as I don't have to pay for it.

I definitely wouldn't be providing bank details to anyone.

I used to work for the police as an intelligence officer, but actually physically worked in the same office as the CRB for our force. I was given a promotion, and had to have a CRB check done as it would have meant access to more highly sensitive and data-protected computer systems. I was due to start the new job (same department, same office, same desk - just a supervisory role) within 4 weeks of interview, but as my CRB check took 8 weeks, I was unable to start it in time and had to remain in my original post, even though my replacement has also started! Both of us at one desk, doing the same job, and my new desk (next to me) completely empty, with work backing up.
Now THAT's bureaucracy gone mad!
Incidentally, I could actually see my CRB application on one of the checker's desks, completed, but it took 8 weeks because it had to be verified with Scotland Yard
YANBU!

Dear Lord, sterryerryoh.

i have a crb to work as a ta... when i applied for a job working in after school club at another school i needed to fill in another one, even tho i was still working using the other one

yeah it is annoying but maybe someone will get caught, one day? hey if it saves one child from getting hurt then its worth the hassle...

I think it's a bit crazy to have to be CRB checked for every individual thing you get involved with.

I did one recently and the form wasn't immense. The hardest bit for me was digging out all the supporting paperwork buried in the depths of the loft.

The system seems very open to manipulation though. It was me who chased it up with the school. They weren't hot on seeing any evidence from me that I'd been CRB'd which I thought was pretty lax on their part.

My DW works as a cover supervisor at our local school (though she has been a qualified teacher). Obviously she had an enhanced CRB check for that. No problem there.

However, due to a planned absence in the school, she took on the role of 'teacher' for a period of 2 weeks back in Feb. She had to fill in another form, the certification for which only arrived back last week (good job there was no problem, eh?)

She's also just started doing some one-to-one tuition - at the same school, organised by the school and with a pupil in the same class which she taught, and regularly cover-supervises for. Guess what? Yup - another CRB form to fill in.

Makes me proud to be paying tax.

I wouldn't want you looking after my child if you are so reluctant to fill one in. Yes, they are a pain but there is no such thing as trusting strangers when they are going to left to supervise children.

I am sorry but if you can't be arsed to fill out a few forms in order to help safe guard our children then tbh I wouldn't really want you working with my DC in the first place!!

And I speak as a TA who has had to fill out many CRB forms.

You're doing it as part of your paid work. The OP is doing it as an unpaid volunteer.

The bank details typically come in as part of address verification, the verifier person is supposed to make a note that they have seen very recent documentation that confirms the address given on the crb application -- bank statements are ideal. But Verifier person shouldn't do more than look at it very briefly, no taking it away out of applicant's sight or photocopying, etc.

I agree that it's all a larger sign of modern of child-protection hysteria. Maybe that's child-care hysteria, full stop. All of us being suckered into thinking that only the best standards of protection will do, or that the best standards of protection will actually make that much difference.

YANBU

I can see the good sense in having a thorough background check on people who are in a role which will bring them in regular, full-time contact with other people's children - especially where they may be the only adult present, e.g. teacher's, nursery workers and child minders.

But for volunteer roles of the type discussed here it seems utterly ridiculous and OTT. Does anyone honestly think that someone who is going to help out with a group of kids in the Church hall for a few hours now and again could pose such a risk that it is worth this amount of beaurocracy?

I don't think it so much a case of "can't be arsed to fill ina few forms" so much as objecting to the sheer waste of tax payers money for very little purpose.

This won't "help keep children safe" it will just create needless paper work, red tape and increased paranoia.

It is as if the people who dreamed up the CRB solution simply didn't know when to draw the line in where it should be applicable and now they can't back down.

And I too find it chilling that this will be cebtralised and therefore open to malfunction where anyone could have their reputation and career destroyed because of malicious accusations or administrative error.

YABU

as a nanny i have an enhanced crb and tbh it took a few mins to fill out - i dont see the big deal

yes you can say that a crb means nothing - doesnt mean you have offended - just means you havent been caught

if it is too much to fill out a form, do you have the time to help the beavers?

"I am sorry but if you can't be arsed to fill out a few forms in order to help safe guard our children then tbh I wouldn't really want you working with my DC in the first place!!"

why, don't you want your children to come into contact with people who can think independently and logically?
I wouldn't want someone with such a sheep mentality as yours working with my children, personally.