Today I witnessed what was possibley the most distressing thing I have even seen

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And I don't know what I should have done about it.

Went to the park with DD this morning. While we were there they was a couple who had a boy of about 8ish in a specially adapted pram. I think he had cerebal palsy. The boy kept putting his hand in his mouth and sucking his hand. The father was at first removing the boys hand from his mouth, fair enough.

But as the boy kept doing it the man began actaully slapping his hand away really quite forceably. He was shouting at him to "bloody pack it in" as well. His behaviour was really agressive

The poor boy was clearly very distressed and was crying out every time the man did this.

The man than pinned the boys arms down by his side and growling at him thats how he'd have to stay if he didn't pack it in. They walked off then so I don't know what happened next

I felt so upset for the boy but didn't not know what to do. So I did nothing but can't stop thinking about that poor child

At what point does bad parenting become abuse

And what should I have done?

You're right Greensleaves, it isn't right. Not sure what the OP would have achieved by intervening though. Perhaps if the support was there in the first place, these things wouldn't occur.

Wonder if it was even the childs father?

Like someone said,it's a snapshot. We have no idea of the family set up .

I agree with a few points posters have made. i do agree with runnybottom in that it was just a snapshot, you really don't know what was happening before or after.

Also op I can see how what you described was distressing for you, but are you describing what you saw accurately. Were you close by, were the smacks really smacks or was he batting his son's hand away? Was the son definitely sucking or was he biting his own hand?

I can see that you thought he was being aggressive so I'm assuming his voice sounded and face looked aggressive but can you be sure he was angry rather than upset. Bloody can hardly be called a swear word I've heard fireman sam say it on milkshake in the morning! It's often a word people say when they want to swear but know it isn't appropriate.

My point is not that I'm doubt your integrity but sometimes we see things out of context and not as they are.

Can i just add, I would find what you saw distressing as well so I'm not putting you down or suggesting you are dramatic, I just think sometimes we see things as worse than they are.

now I've had trying days with DS (and he isn't SN!) and I am sure I've came across as quite verbally aggressive towards him when out and about but sometimes you have no control and if you haven't slept it's easy to just snap and shout at your child - give the man a break would you? Ok so it wasn't nice for YOU to witness but think how bad he must have been feeling, as well as the child? Perhaps he'd had a really rough time of it recently, and was struggling to cope with the incident at the park. I would imagine the man (father?) was mortified and left the park because of this, not wanting to create any more of a scene. I'd say most of us have been in that situation before. Wishing the ground would swallow you up.

Try not to be too distressed.

My mil has two daughters with CP, very profound physical and learning difficulties.

Over the years I have seen her shout at them, manhandle them, get impatient, etc.

I've also seen her work her fingers to the bone to ensure they get the very best care, whether from her or professional carers.

She adores them and is the very best mother they could have.

They are very robust - and it's real family life. Until I saw it up close I imagined a child with SN would be kept on a velvet cushion and spoken to in whispers - but it's the real world, and normal parents in the real world sometimes shout and yell - even when not under the extra strain of having a child with severe difficulties.

MiL is human, as is the dad you saw today. And fwiw, my sil's hand is scarred badly from her biting it - maybe it distresses the
dad to see his son hurting himself.

Of course, he could be an abusive dad...but maybe you saw an unflattering and unfortunate snapshot.

macdoodle in NO way is losing your rag and shouting at your children (which isn't great, but we've all done it) comparable to hitting a disabled child

there have to be SOME absolutes

if you saw somone aim a hefty kick into a dog's ribs because it was pulling too hard and they were frustrated, would you say "oh well, he may have just lost his job and his wife might have run off with the milkman"

I wouldn't

macdoodle has summed it up in her post - sometimes we have bad days and sometimes we have good. It is unfortunate that others around will sometimes have to witness our 'bad days' and will assume we are the worst of parents, yet that's only a small portion of what really goes on in one family's life. it isn't the full picture!

that sound bad.......but it can make the hand very sore.
so perhaps the father was concerned about that.
dd has a "habit" of putting her hands on her kneck(can't really describe it) and she scratches her neck, so i try to stop her.......
ok I wouldn't do it in that manner.

Blah blah may only be a snapshot etc we have no idea what the family circumstances are..

For real? So if someone was swearing at their child/assaulting them etc you'd say the same? Runnybottom im starting to wonder if you say anything constructive on these boards other than to try and tell the OP of various threads they havent got a clue...

but it is just a snapshot.......
guess what parents of disabled children are not saints, they have bad days too..

Ok well I dont consider one bloody swearing at your child, I have been known to say "bloody shut up", "for gods sake what now" etc etc!
And we really dont know he was "smacking/abusing", he may in frustration and despair, been batting the hand away!

We just dont know do we, I am so glad all you judgy pants have never reached the end of your tether

So people who dont treat their kids in this way have never reached the end of their tether? Oooookkkk.

Some kids talk to and treat their kids like shite- SN or not, theres no getting away from it. It is upsetting and I dont think being stressed is an excuse to treat anyone like that let alone a DC. It comes to something when people tend to be more outraged at others treating an animal badly than they do a child these days.

I find it quite odd the amount of times people have said 'it is not right to hit a disabled child' - it is not right to hit anybody, ever, full stop!

First thing I though was the boy probably bites his hand and the dad had had enough.

damnedchilblains, I was close enough to see exactly what was happening. We were just feet away from them for a good 10 minutes or so.

I really don't expect people to be perfect. I lost my rag years ago in the street when DD1 was about 6 and lying on the floor refusing to move. She was kicking me and shouting. I lost it, shouted and then burst into tears. I could probably give you dozens of examples of how I have handle situations with my DC badly. I too have cried at night thinking about something I have said to the DC in the heat of the moment and then deeply regretted it.

I can't even begin to imagine how incredably hard it must be for a parent of a child with special needs.

This man was treating the child in an agressive manner, he was slapping him not just pushing his hand away, and when he wsa shouting he was right up in his face.

The thing is though how do we tell the difference between some poor parent who has reached the end of their tether or somebody who is treating their child in an abusive way?

All these poor children who come to light in the media every so often who have been abused for years. Somebody somewhere must have seen something and just turned away, ignored it.

I agree it must of been distressing to see, and I dont think it is at all acceptable to hit or swear at a child.
It is possible the child was trying to bite himself. My ds aged 6 is being assessed for tourettes and ocd at the mo and he bites and scaratches himself. I cant see why someone would get so upset about a child putting thier hand in thier mouth. Surely if it was just bad parenting if putting the hand in the mouth kept the child happy and quiet why would he get so annoyed about it, iyswim.
I am not excusing the man as I said hitting and swearing at a child is not acceptable, but I think every parent has flipped and done things they are not proud of. My ds can be very challenging and it can be very tiring constantly making sure he does not harm himself and I have tried so many things to stop him hurting himself I am ashamed that once or twice I have lost my temper with him (although not psychially), and I have hated myself for it and really beat myself up about it. But like I said every parent as one time done it,no one is perfect.
I suppose what Im saying is you dont know if this how the child is always treated or you saw family on a really bad day who might desperatly need some respite

bloody is hardly swearing. And I speak as someone who has never swarn at my child (I have shouted though!)

Sometimes we all witness things which can seem distressing - even a toddler having a tantrum can be distressing as it can seem the child is genuinely upset when actually they're just screaming/sobbing because they've been told "no".

What you witnessed was a tiny snapshot of someone's life. And actually you don't have any idea what it really was/what life is like otherwise.

Perhaps the child bites his hand and makes it bleed, in which case there woudld be plenty of people waiting to judge when seeing "a child in the park whose hand was covered in cuts and bleeding and the parents seemed oblivious," in fact maybe the parents have been challenged before by other well-meaning people who thought that a child with a hand full of cuts and scratches and bite marks might be being abused. So maybe the dad was getting angry because he is paranoid about what people think when they see the results of the child sucking/biting his hand.

Maybe he doesn't have much feeling in that hand (due to the disability) and maybe the father therefore felt he needed to apply extra force when trying to remove the hand.

Maybe the distress was actually a meltdown from a child who finds it difficult to communicate (much as a two year old might do).

And >, even disabled children need discipline. It's just that sometimes it needs to be done in a different way. I know someone who has had to drag her child kicking and screaming away from places because he was having a meltdown. And she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. because if she leaves him be she is judged for doing nothing, if she ddrags him away (the only way to remove him from the situation) she is judged for that too.

So there really often is no right or wrong answer.

"even disabled children need discipline"

I don't think anybody is disputing that

particular not posters with direct experience

but repeatedly hitting a child - and a disabled one at that - is not discipline

it's violent, and it's bullying of the worst sort

the man may well be a great father the rest of the time, and he may well have cried with frustration, guilt and misery afterwards - many of us have done that as well

but why is it necessary to dress up a clearly unacceptable action as something else? If the man was usually a decent father, he would probably agree that what he did was disgusting

granted he could have handled it differently, but in all seriousness others are right when they say there is not a lot of help. my ds has sn and i feel like bashing my head on the wall most days, but i wont i may get a headache . these people could be crying out for help and dont know where to turn. he shouldnt have smacked and how do you know he is not sitting at home right now feeling utterley ashamed of himself. deep down he probably knows he shouldnt have done it, but he cant turn back time, all he can do is make it up to his child now and learn to control his temper.

When I saw a mother yelling at her son and being very rough with him I went up to her and asked her if she was okay. It defused the situation while letting her know I had seen what she was doing.

In that case op you are well within your rights to be upset, and you are right, all these reported cases of abuse, somebody must see something. I just hope that what you witnessed was in fact a one-off and not something systematic and all together worse

Fab
I did the same thing just before christmas. The woman was shaking her childs pram really violently and shouting shut up at this child who was just grizzly.
I asked if she wanted me to walk him around a bit and she said no but it seemed to kind of clear her head and she stopped yelling.

We all get stressed, we all are capeable of loosing it especially with child with special needs.
But I would have found it incredibly distressing to watch a child with disability being hit. Of course our children are capeable of being naughty but aggression is self defeating and heartbreaking when used on a child who doesn't really understand.
I slapped my son a couple of times when he was younger, when things were at their worst but it was a split second loss og control that I regretted imediately.

I wouldn't judge the man/dad/carer as I haven't enough information but tbh I think anyone who could watch a child with SN being hit and not feel horrified and seeks to make the slapping excusable by virtue of the mans stress or tiredness is a step further than I can go.
I understand why I slapped my son but I have never forgiven myself. And maybe if someone had approached me it would have helped.
I don't blame the OP for being distressed nor for wondering if there was anything she could have done. Although I suspect the answer is no.

Yes, most people have moments (hours/days) where they're not proud of their parenting - I know I did/do. I think Fab's idea makes a lot of sense. If we all just sit on the sidelines not 'judging' then we're not particularly helping either. At what point does it cease to be a snapshot and become front-page news and then it's all 'why didn't anyone do anything?'.

I don't know what the answer is - I wish to goodness I did.

No need to attack me personally redwine

Point is though no one does have a clue, and tbh I'm sick of posters jumping in to condemn other people based on what somebody else thinks they saw. You weren't there, you didn't see and you don't know. I don't know how some of you form such exact opinions of these things, massive transference and vivid imagination notwithstanding.