Spoilt Rotten

[foureleven]

To kind of hope some of the mums from this programme are on here so we can find out what on earth they were thinking of??!?!!

I know this was on BBC on Tuesday but I only saw it last night. At first I thought it was cut and dry - parents fault.

Then when I saw the guy being taught by a doctor how to cut a kiwi fruit (?!) I thought my god, somewhere someone has failed this guy!

And what about the mother with the over weight son... surely she has mental health issues, no?

Also wanted to punch the doctor who's opening line right near the beginning of the program when discussing childhood obesity "we're seeing it more and more now, with more parents working, children speanding more time in front of the TV.."

Well, might as well have got the working mum bashing out of the way right at the start hey??!!

Strangly I was actually less concerned about the cost to the NHS and more concerned with the effect of these parents behaviours on the poor kids.

I mean, they clearly loved their children, the mums who were in hospital with their children having their teeth out were so distraught they made me have a little tear... So if they love them so much why arent they being stronger and saying no to all the sweets.. I suppose its the old 'killing with kindness' thing.

Discuss...

peedoff - what is wrong with buying pre-chopped veg?

Kneazel are those all activities compulsory ? Because I have asked around other parents, friends and family and the vast majority weren't even asked for outdoor shoes for their children between September and March, so not much running and football taking place in pumps I would imagine.

My 7yr old DS watched some of the programme (he isn't usually up that late but he'd been to footy practice till late). Straight after seeing the poor little boy having his teeth taken out he went upstairs to brush his...

I was brought up not to eat junk food, we had a bag of crisps on a Thursday after swimming and a tube of Smarties on Sunday after Sunday School, and that was it. Dinner was cooked from scratch and often grown in our own garden. We played out all day.

I think some children had more junk than we did, but it was very much looked down on. Whereas now (in the same area) you're a bit "odd" if your kids don't eat nuggets and chips from the freezer every night (I'm firmly in the "odd" camp).

Pre chopped vag is covered in chlorine and sulphur and other chemicals to stop the natural dacay and "browning" process that happens when the veg membranes are exposed to air.

It is a hugely wasteful of energy required to treat it and pack it.

I also have to say that silly woman telling the guy he was eating a kiwi fruit incorrectly, how the hell was that helpful. If he wanted to peel it, so what it still ends in the same result. If that's what these people are exposed to a patronising nurse with a trolly of fruit no wonder they can't be bothered, far better to have an apple, banana, carrots and other familiar food and get those eaten IMO.

Definitely agree that not all state schools are the same.

In my DC's school (a small village primary) they do two hour's PE a week, including swimming once a fortnight. There are also football, hockey, rugby and netball teams with relevant after school training sessions, and an after school general sports club. Last term they had a whole school cross country running competition (even my 4 yr old DD did it!). OK a lot of the training etc is after school, but the culture is that most people get involved with it as it such a small school.

Nope not compulsory but open to all. Parents are not asked for outdoor trainers because they are expensive. At our school they still go out in all weathers sadly some kids have to wear their school shoes but most have trainers even if they are not asked for them. Many have football boots as well. Swim wear is also provided for those who do not have it or they can swim in underwear. It is a shame to say that all state schools are bad so many of us have no choice after all. However, this thread is not a private school debate.

Jumping in here - saw this on Iplayer last night.

helyg - completley get what you mean about being in the 'odd camp'. We are there too! I hate the I get when I answer "no my DC don't want a bag of haribo, thank you". I do feel pressured to give in sometimes!

It needs addressing though, the children not asked for outdoor footwear in my mini survey are more than able to afford it I promise, hence my conclusion it wasn't asked for because it's not required.
Open to all isn't enough because the harsh truth is the fat unfit children have fat unfit parents so hardly first in line for extra physical activity.

Flame away but my mum worked and I got fat as a teenager because she had no time to shop or cook properly and bought crappy convenience food. Also I was alone in the house a lot and therefore freely grazed on said crap while slumped in front of the TV.

I work myself. I have nothing at all against working mothers. And non-working mothers can be just as neglectful. But in my case it definitely didn't help.

Still, by far the biggest contributor to childhood obesity today is probably parents sitting on mn or similar because that's far more fun than taking dcs to park and cooking them an organic nutritious meal

I saw most of it, but mised the Kiwi bit.
I'm intriged - so what is the correct way to eat a Kiwi fruit? And how did the dad do it?
I sometimes peel them, sometimes use a spoon.

Yes, but Milly they can't only ask the kids in a state school that can afford it, they have to have a general policy.

Orange juice (whatever type) will have Sulphur dioxide in it too. Otherwise that would turn brown, likewise, nearly all wine, apple juice, most dried fruit, etc.

You could squeeze your own.

And tap water has chlorine in it too. Not all chemicals are bad - in fact pure water is a chemical.

It is not ideal to use pre-chopped veg, but it is hardly mothering sin of the century.

If you get too uptight about food, in whatever way, your children will see you doing so and develop who knows what 'issues' with food themselves.

I have a friend whose own mother was very fussy about only feeding her children 'healthy' options. Her two daughters have been on self-imposed diets and/or following the latest health food fad ever since. Now the next generation is getting that message too.

Strikes me that lots of people on here have said, 'we never did any exercise as kids but we did walk to school/play in the garden/run around school playground'. We don't remember doing exercise then cos it wasn't really called exercise - it wasn't an extra chore that had to be fitted into a busy day. We didn't have to pay for it or go to a special venue to do it, we were just normal free range children.

My mother is a primary school teacher. At one school she taught in recently the children were not allowed to run in the playground as it was too small and deemed unsafe for running in the risk assessment. Seriously, I do not lie. The school had a 'healthy schools' certificate because they gave a manky bit of apple to each child at 11am every day (and probably ticked some other boxes, to be fair...)

What struck me was the way the mother 'defended' Leon's lack of exercise by saying 'he's 5, I'm not going to make him run around, he's not 18'...

Try STOPPING a 5 year old from running around! My 3 are all out in the garden atm, they are 8,6 and 3, all running around, on the climbing frame, playing crazy games of Cops and Robbers and Tag. None of them think they are 'doing exercise'. They just don't stop running! And they are all fit. The 3 year old can walk for miles - he walks 3-4 miles easily. And the older 2 just don't get tired. They would keep going all day.

Activity doesn't have to be 'formal' exercise - it's just being active, not slobbing in front of a screen. I think screens are the root of a lot of childhood obesity tbh - we have a rule of no TV during the week, and no games systems etc. They are allowed a rationed amount of time on a PC (esp when they need to do homework involving the internet), but they tend to not do that much anyway. It opens up all sorts of other possibilities to them - like creative play!

i found watching leon and his mum and grandmother slightly scary . I did feel as though the mother was on the defensive ,but i guess you would be wouldnt you . It sounded as though she hadnt been given enough advice/support re diet and exercise. For instance when she said about him getting out of breath and making him stop , nobody has said to her ,its ok if he gets out of breath ,he will do as there is so much weight on his chest and he is so unfit .I didnt get the impression she had a full understanding of nutrition either ,as far as the amount of calories needed . I think she should of been given a diet sheet with the meals laid out for her day to day for a month at a time ,including portion sizes . She clearly loved her son and was doing what she felt was healthy .

MillyMollyMoo - I agree about the veg. Not very helpful to teach (could be) hard up families about flippin aubergines. We had no money as kids, we had carrots, potatoes.. a swede was exotic!

I think the scariest thing is that the mums really did 'love' their kids. I honestly think its too late for most of them, sadly. Makes it all the more important to teach children the right things at school so they can prevent repeating the cycle.

Im dead set againt the 'nanny state' and think people should be free to raise their children the way they wish but this proves that a lot of people cant be trusted too. So sad.

Whoever said about how when we were kids we didnt consciously exercise more we just ran around a lot more is absolutely right! Leon's mum said 'he's too young to go to the gym or go running' or something like that. A 5 year old shouldn't need to! Just through the course of a day my girls will be active for way over the governement reccomended hour. (which by the way is sooooo not enough in my opinion)

Leon's mum was encouraging the wheel chair.. it was all a bit sick. I hope she is an extreme case and that doesnt go on a lot. They should take the wheelchair away from her.

The 'working parents' thing I have a bee in my bonnet about to be honest so was proably a bit sensitive about it in the programme. I just thought 'I turn on a Panorama about parenting which is a subject I am wholly interested in hearing all opinions on, especially professional ones.. and 2 minutes in to the show there's a doctor blaming child obesity on working parents - great'

A bit over the top of me but really... is there anyone left who doesnt realise its good parenting or bad parenting not whether you work or not. Jeees!

I was wondering if the lack of access to NHS dentistry would be contributory factor to the tooth decay?

didnt see this programme
I have to say that I think there needs to be alot more help and advice availible for parents to allow them to make good choices for their children. MOST parents I know feed the children a reasonable amount or alot of junk food, dont encourage exercise and two of my daughters friends (5 year olds) have had teeth out in hospital. I know when I was a child (was born in the mid eighties so into the junk food/tv era!)and I know that my lifestyle and that of my friends at the time was the same, LOTS of junk, tv and when they came out gameboys etc. Could have been different in different areas but this was my exeprience. As a result when I first had my children I carried on like this. I DID then go to various groups and classes to improve this (surestart centres for one) and this has really changed what I buy into the house and my outlook on what is normal but if I hadnt have activley gone out looking for parenting help then I wouldnt have come across healthy living courses etc

Round about way of saying - it will only get worse as new generations become parents and we need more education and access to preventative measures for parents, not just telling them they are doing it wrong but actually tell them how to do it right.

Noone is failing anyone by "not teaching them how to cut up a kiwi fruit". For many people with limited income, kiwis are not high on the priority list. This is however not an excuse for not buying and eating a relatively healthy diet-but, a kiwi-come on.

Bigpants1, that made me laugh. I often find people on here take what I say too literally! I didnt mean if you cant peel a kiwi fruit then you'd been failed. I meant the fact that someone from the NHS in their wisdom had decided that a grown man had to be taught how to peel a kiwi fruit because the situation had got that desperate! Surely somewhere along the way he should have been given the sort of life skills that he could peel and eat fruit?! Not a kiwi fruit necessarily.

The thing that really bugs me about the children having teeth removed and im not sure if this was addressed in the programme ,but how many of the children had regularly been to the dentist? this goverment has sytematically destoyed nhs provision for dental treatment for children . A child wouldnt lose so many teeth if they had been seen every six months ,unless there was an underlying problem with thier teeth/enamel . I tried to get my children into a nhs dentist and the closest one they could offer me was 40 miles away ,so a 80 mile round trip for a check up ,if i didnt have a car ,i worked out it would take approx 2 and a half hours just to get there . So now i HAVE to pay for what is supposed to be free for all children under 16 ,oh and before anyone suggests i had a choice ,when i rang the 40mile away dentist the waiting list was over 18months long and the receptionist said they probably wouldnt be nhs for that length of time anyway . Rant over

All dentists treat children free even private practices on the basis that the child will become a loyal fee paying customer surely ? And it attracts the parents who have to pay in at the same time.
Ours certainly have in three different towns. Never ever had a problem finding somebody to look at children's teeth, for free if you turn up for the appointment.

We will see the return of the school dentist and the school nurse soon I am certain and it can't come soon enough.

The private dentist we used to go to only gave NHS treatment to children whose parents were paying patients. I don't think that's unusual.

We're lucky enough to have found an NHS dentist with vacancies a mere 15 miles away now.