To question this...?

[foureleven]

I saw this on another thread and kind of hope the mum in question doesnt see this because I dont want to cause offense... just genuinely interested in peoples views..

(..treads carefully...)

I spotted this person say that she is a SAHM and her husband brings home £1000 a month. Plus they get child tax credits. Now I assume this is not 'working tax credits' as thats for childcare right? And they wont need it if she doesnt work.

It may be that its not a lot of money anyway and not worth getting one's knickers in a twist for but AIBU to wonder why a SAHM can claim benefits (other than initial maternity benefits of course)?

If you are a SAHM because your partner earns enough to cover everything thats one thing (and a debate for another thread, this is not ANOTHER SAHM Vs WOHM debate!)but why can women receive top up money to be able to stay at home with the children they cant really afford to?

Shouldnt we be responsible for bringing enough money in to the home for our children?

Genuinely ponders....

Loads of people 'have more' materially than me and DH but that is not important. Loads of people have more than us and don't work at all, we know one couple with 7 kids who both stay home and have much more than us, two cars, two holiday homes etc on benefits (prob fiddling) but I don't get bitter over it. Why? Because I am happy with my life and my lot.

I am a SAHM which is what I love, DH has a job he likes, we have enough, I am happy to sacrifice the career for a while and share a car with DH. We have what we need, anymore is just material. What others have is not worth thinking about but in this competetive society it makes alot of people miserable and in competition with each other and constantly checking what others have. Many people will have more than you and work less but equally there are people with far less and much more suffering. Just be grateful for what you have.

Yes jellybeans, you are very wise.

I don't think a household income of £50K makes anyone a fat cat, there will be many, many, mnay households with that income...gievn it is just £25k apiece. I was earning nearly that (£42k odd) on my own at 25 and my father earned more than double that when I was growing up. BUT: You live to your means. Higher income normally means higher outgoings too. I'm not saying it isn't a lovely position to be in, but sometimes it means that your borrowing power is higher, not necessarily your disposable income. I earn around £15k p/a at the mo as a trainee teacher and don't feel drastically worse off, slightly less frittering on clothes but apart from that we have everything we need and want. I do sometimes wonder how nice and easy life would be if I still earned my old salary, given that we are comfortable now (especially given DH used to earn a little more than me...put the two of us together and we'd be doing alright for a pair of 30 yr olds!).

Anyway, I don't know what I'm rambling on about. I think nothing more than to say that there is always someone better/worse off than us so comparisons are useless as we come in with our own standards. I can see where Foureleven is coming from as I have never relied on anyone for anything and wouldn't be planning to stay home if we hadn't arranged our lifestyle as such that it is affordable on one salary. (We're both retraining at the mo and our combined income is what DH's will be next yr so we know we can do it.) I will claim what tax credits we're entitled to, child benefit etc etc as I would be crazy not to. I think I will try to save what I can to cover the leaner months. I think what people are objecting to more than the principle OP, is the tone. I don't know, I mean I do agree with you 99% in that I am of the same mentality...you cut your cloth etc etc but I think there are different situations here. For some it isn't viable returning to work etc.

Anyway, I really have rambled enough now.

i know Violet! We have a not huge house in a very expensive area and pay £170 per month council tax...I dread to think what the bigger places we're looking at (only 2 beds at the mo) will be!

It may not make you rich but it certainly makes you not poor. And whinging about people who have much less than you getting a small bit of help makes you a bit of a twat.

Im not going to rise to your nastiness runnybottom. I am however wondering how so many can say i have a chip on my shoulder and aren't ging you any grief. You sound like the angriest person I have ever seen post on here.

I didnt say I was poor did I?

Are you actually telling me that whether you feel it is unreasonable or not, you cant appreciate my point of view at all?

I can certainly appreciate yours.

I guess I do have a chip on my shoulder about somethings which is strange considering everything that I have (not meaning money. Meaning 2 healthy happy children, a wonderful partner, a wonderful, huge supportive family, a good job)
But I am honest about my flaws and I beleive, from the many people I have met in my time, that it is human nature to grubble when you feel hard done by.

I dont sit about frowning all day. Quite the opposite actually!! But when something makes me cross, I like to air it, have a bit of a rant. Listen to some other opinions then move on.

Come on runnybottom, what do you like to grumble about? - and dont say 'people with loads of money complaining about being hard up'

I mean, maybe you grumble that there's always a queue at the local shop? But hey at least you dont have to walk 5 miles for clean water!

Am I the only one who gets cross when they cancel Eastenders to put on Rugby? God, should be greatful to have a TV!

See?

Oh and thanks fiofio

FWIW i agree with most of what SecretLemonadeDrinker has said.

(ps, ASLD: your first reply to my comment was correct.
""it's not as simple as minimum wage, because it wouldn't change if one or both parents worked.
which would mean that more families could have one SAHP and one wage earner without being penalised for it. "

I am not sure I understand - are you saying you think both parents should be encouraged to work? I don't think anyone questions the fact that a parent (pref. mum) staying at home is best. I think a rise in min. wage (and obviously alot of other complex things) would encourage one of a couple to go and work, and the other to stay at home and look after the child/ren. If the other parent decides to work and use childcare, then that is their choice but they shouldn't have to. If the working partner decides to do whatever (education/just climb the ladder) to earn more - great. But someone who works full time at min. wage should reap the benefits (for want of a better word) of it. Not everyone can progress, nor should they have to. The wrong people are paying for this - it shouldn't be the government in the form of benefits it should be the employers who are exploiting the minimum wage. "

that's what i think.

Its called context. When you start a thread based on someone elses wages and complain about them gettign tax credits, then you will get peoples opinions on it. And my opinion is that you don't have a lot to be complaining about.
Its not like an uninvited random comment. And I'm not angry, I'm mouthy forthright.

Opinions, yep.

Swearing and rudeness, nope.

Maybe Im just too nice inexperienced or naive about AIBU board ettiquete!

All the best to you runnybottom. Hope that clears up by the way

swearing's fine, but we don't usually do rudeness.
not to the person, but it's okay to be rude about someone's opinion.

that's called healthy debate and if we didn't have it, we'd be robots.

'makes you a bit of a twat'

That is rude to me but ho hum, who cares if someone wants to go about calling a perfect stranger a twat. What I have taken from this is that I must take a vow of positivity. My only serious gripes in life are;

My daughter's father is in fact a known twat
My step daughter's mother is an even bigger one.

all the other stuff i.e. I pay loads of tax where does it all go? Why are footballers paid so much? Why are the wines I like never on offer? etc etc really dont matter because my life's fabulous

When my Dp was working we were claiming for both CTC and WTC.
WTC isn't for childcare it is payable with or without children and is to supplement a low income. Remember not everyone gets a 'liveable' wage so that has to be supplemented.
Yes I suppose when we claimed the tax credits meant I could afford to be a SAHM but what is wrong with that.
When you consider how many wage earners are on minimum wage so have no way of ever earning enough to buy a house why not have one as a SAHM/D, it gives the children a secure childhood and that person can always work when the children are at school

So let me guess, someones on here yet again being idiotic with their opinions on others financial situation regarding the "benefits" system.

Ops but that's right, WTC/CTC are not benefits in the real sense, and someone proclaiming that they financially keep their own children but begrudge others for rightfully and lawfully claiming a little of their taxes back!

Some people just get more idiotic by the day with these mindless but not surprising topic of "debate"

Fail to see where the debate is

Definition of opinion; a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.
Definition of debate; argue with one another

Littlemisshappy, if you have one opinion and I have another, surely there is room for debate.

There is no way of detirmining until the debate has happened whether one of us is right or not. Even after a debate had taken place there will probably sill no proof that one or the other is right.

An opinion is not based on proof or fact so you can not possibly be sure that either mine or yours is right.

So please dont call me idiotic or mindless.

In my mind more idiotic and mindless is to assume others are either of these just because they disagree with your view point.

Haha it has just occured to me that this whole board is called 'am I being unreasonable?' I dont mind if you think I'm being unreasonable but dont rag on me for asking!!

Dont post on AIBU then, you asked for opinions that is mine!, I do think your comments and narrow minded on this topic, also idiotic and

Firstly you have no clue about the topic in hand, secondly your comments are narrow minded in believe that people can earn as much as you say!

Your OP says alot that you know Nada about the system in regards to WTC! and families.

CTC/WTC are NOT benefits!

If you came on and asked about how the system works instead of making a "example" of this woman's financial situation the board would have gave you it, but you did not and assumed through your lack of knowledge on the subject.

I dont "rag" anyone, I give my opinion.

(trys to walk away... fails)

Because I dont understand the benefits or CTC or WTC I am not an idiot..

I dont understand the off side rule either but when I asked DP about it he didnt call me a twat!

I concede that using someone as an example was not wise, and I have apologised to the lady in question. I was hoping it wasnt obvious who I was talking about as there are loads of threads flying about but that was naive of me.

I suspect that even if I had said what I said without the example you would have felt the same way because, as I have now discovered, a lot of people are very touchy and defensive about this subject.

Im not touchy or defensive about this subject!, In order to debate or even have a opinion on the matter you at least should know the basics of the topic in hand, you evidently do not, as it shows through your post!

I have NOT called you idiotic, I have called your comments it, as you do not understand the subject in hand, seeing as your the OP and started this with little knowledge, what did you expect from people to offer understanding when you are judging others for their financial situations

You need to understand peoples financial situations on ALL levels and not compare them to your own to understand the huge diversity and complexity to what the government is trying unsuccessfully to aim for!

The sad reality is that a % of this country is in poverty.

Bored now.

Off home and to grab some red wine and cook a nice chilli

Edgyallenpoo, i wasnt aware that high earners paid a lower percentage of earnings in tax... They have a higher tax band

This is a statistically proven fact. think about it - alot of the tax paid is not income tax, but indirect tax, like fuel tax, VAT, etc

if you earn 20k and spend 5k a year on fuel - you will pay a very high percentage of your take-home income on tax.

also, people earning (say ) 15k living in a 1 bed flat will still pay £100 a month council tax, whereas it may be £200 a month for the person living on 60k in a large house...

I worked out how much tax the average household (40k) pays - and I easily found 15k in income tax, council tax, fuel tax, VAT,..etc etc..that's before you factor in the fact that what you pay for everything pays the providers tax....

Foureleven - have you tried out that tax credit calculator yet? When you find out that the poor woman you scapegoated is not, in fact, fleecing the taxpayer do be sure to let us know, and apologise.

als, income tax bands are incremental, that is, on your first 40k you pay the same as a lower earner on their first 40k, then the higher rate kicks in over that amount....

DH's old French master has just appeared on The Weakest Link. As a woman.

gaelicsheep - i never said she was fleecing the tax payer, not eligible for what she claimed, had calculated wrongly, lied or anything of the sort. I asked if it was right that you could claim tax credits to top up a househole income where only one adult of the two worked. Because that was the first time I had heard it and I may have read or understood wrongly.

I wanted to clarify, because at first I completely disagreed with that.

Having read others opinions and situations I concede that a lot of the time it is fair that the system works this way. I do however feel that this is not always the case. And I do feel that it is not necessarily the right of every single mum to stay at home with their kids and have their household income be topped up with tax credits.

Personally I would prefer to work for that money, that is my opinion based on how I was brought up, or peer influences, the fact that I love my job, or just my nature or whatever reason. Thats just how I beleieve my role stands.

Anyway, i said all of that ages ago. Ive moved on now.

I feel loads more clued up having asked these questions so its great.

i am sorry for having upset the lady in question in the process but I have apologised and Im sure she's ok with it now.

Edgyallenpo - that is a really interesting point. Although if you earn more, dont you spend more..? and therefore pay more tax as a whole anyway..?

It is incremental, but it still hurts!