to get titsed off with parents believing their children are the academic elite?

[tallyhoho]

I am fed up with those people who bleat on about how children are either talented academically or not and about how IQ is largely inherited.

I believe extreme talent someone may be born with eg that 16 year old black swimmer, however, all you need to do is look at private schools to see that drumming exam technique into someone will lead to good grades.

I believe there are some children who are genuinely academically gifted but they are few and far between. All other children fall somewhere on a spectrum where given the right encouragement and environment can do well.

Our children are all doing well at school but I don't believe it is down to me and DH.

ImSoNotTelling "...I don't believe it is down to me and DH"

What I was getting at is that I would not presume it was not solely down to our "academic ability", not our home environment.

oojimaflip, Ha ha. That phrase titses me off as well.

ImSoNotTelling, What is "nonsense and simplistic" about saying parents bragging titses me off?

It's sad to see parents boasting about their children/taking an interest in their education?

My mum teaches adult dyslexics who've very often had parents who thought the whole family was just dim, that they would always be dim, and that schooling wasn't for them. Would you prefer that?

tallyhoho yes sorry was arguing something that you haven't said
whoops.
Your point about private schools doesn't make sense though, as there are loads of different sorts.

I also haven't seen many people on MN bragging.

LRD, "Boasting" is an unpleasant trait. Taking an interest in education is different and important. It is very sad that people label their kids and therefore end up with them living up or down to that label.

I don't understand the OP at all. What is the point being made? It starts out as a post about bragging parents and then moves on to private schools. What exactly is your beef, OP?

You did say this: "You only need to look at some of those who come out of private school clutching A*s at GCSE to realise what a bit of money can buy you."

Well a lot of private schools are academically selective, so brighter children. When this is combined with smaller classes, better facilities, good teaching and a motivated environment, of course the result is better grades.

If you're angry that smaller classes etc aren't available in the state sector, I agree with you. Wholeheartedly.

Yes, but I think I'd put up with some boasting for preference. It's not a good trait, but doesn't it usually come from good intentions?

I agree with you about the label thing, though.

ISNT, It's more the implication like LRD suggests of pigeonholing kids as "academic" or "practical" rather than bragging or boasting. Bandying about kids being gifted and talented when with the right environment and encouragement many children could achieve within the same spectrum.

There's that psychological experiment that illustrates that if you make someone feel inferior and unable to do something they won't be able to do it.

Anyway I digress...

Never come across this myself.most parent who have children who are extremely bright, don't boast. A because it is blatantly obvious to everyone that they are bright B They often have social problems which out weigh their intelligence.
Generally though kids at private school or in state schools in affluent areas are more intelligent.Their parents often are more intelligent to earn enough to live in the 'good' area or pay for an independent school.

Tba, tallyhoho, I've not seen that on MN but perhaps don't visit the education threads enough.

Is 'gifted and talented' meant to be quite a small proportion of children, then? I thought it was just a loose way of recognizing those children who were better than the norm in some area - and you'd expect masses of children to be better than the norm in some area, so surely you'd expect to hear about quite a lot of them?

But I may be missing something more specific about the definition.

Ok stuff like "DD1 is the arty one, DD2 is the brainy one, DD3 is the sporty one" etc etc?

Yes agree that is not great.

Quattro, It titses me off when people believe that the reason their children are "academic" is purely down to them (not their environment etc and numerous other factors). Also, I don't like people labelling children as I have previously posted. That was the point of my post. I have no beef re:private ed at all.

DS1 has a 148 IQ (tested at 11) and he sure as hell did not get it from me

I grew up on a council estate in a pit village.My parents were factory workers who left school at 14.I went to grammar school-the first in my family and one of 11 from a year group of 60+I went on to get a degree,became a teacher.My own children had no grammar school option-both went to university and have careers they enjoy[one in teaching one in publishing]I dont know if its nature or whatever but I put my own success down to my grandparents and my parents who presented me with books and valued reading/education as my only way upwards.

It titses me off when people believe that the reason their children are "academic" is purely down to them (not their environment etc and numerous other factors".....

Er, who do you think creates the childs environment? Who decides where they live, where they go to school, how much they read, how much the are exposed to educational stuff, how much television they watch, what they eat, when they go to bed?

Of course the academic success of a child has everything to do with their parents! How could it be any different?

Private schools tend to have smaller classes and better facilities. Some are also academically selective. (Though again, this is not necessarily an indication of innate intelligence, as the entrance exams are often ones which children can be coached for.) However, the greatest resource of any school is the teachers, and I don't think there is any evidence that private schools have 'better' teachers.

(Responding to an earlier post)

pranma, you are right education is invaluable. Now I'm off to do some work as kids are due back from morning out with DH. I'lljust spray some furniture polish in the air so he thinks I've been cleaning.

runnybottom, you understood my initial post and my point hasn't changed so I don't really understand your last post. Anyway up, I really am off now.

My last post expands upon my first. Its part of the same point, that you are wrong in your OP.

Personally I don't agree that high IQ is inherited but I do agree parents have to encourage their children to do their best -whatever that is.

I have a high IQ but I'm dyslexic which is quite commen so no I wouldn't want my DS to inherit this from me. Although the DEST in year R picked up mild dyslexic tendencies.

A high IQ does not make you do very well at school either as can go along side poor social skills - making friends can be difficult.

I believe every child has their 'talents' and should all be celebrated.

YANBU

Gosh - I'm dyslexic and I hope my children are; I have no idea how you teach a non-dyslexic child anything.

I've no idea how heritable IQ is, but even if I thought it were strongly heritable, I don't like the idea of parents saying they're entirely responsible for their children's academic success - isn't it a bit mean to the child, implying that they're not responsible themselves?

FWIW IQ (though not in the way it's used in education by the sounds of it) is stilly highly debatable. As someone who actually uses these assessments as part of my work, I'm not sure where this evidence that it IS genetic is coming from. The child of a parent with similar IQ's not only share genes but share home environments and more often than not socio-economic opportunities (or otherwise).

Some kids it would seem are truly truly bright and given a chance will excel, in others a combination of natural aptitude (but not brilliance) with coaching and increased opportunities (and in some cases hot housing) will produce g&t.

In my line of work (with adults) test results have to be interpreted with huge caution, as poor/ disadvantaged early backgrounds and patchy schooling will mean that people underperform on tests. This remains the case with adults, heaven knows how much more it is the case for children actually in the throes of these things.

I wonder if part of your point OP was that private/ more competitive schooling (or beliefs about own children) will result in more exposure to material which then is likely to enable you to perform better on tests?

BTW OP I've just had a look at the threads I guess you are referring to on here and they are (at times) hilarious!

I agree and dyslexia is inherited but I don't know about IQ. I think the only thing a parent can do is instill the importance of trying hard. Someones gotta be bottom of the class!!!

I reward my DS (5) for trying and praise him when he gets it right but always tell him that as long as he tries I'll be happy.

Littlereddragon my DS is showing signs of struggling with writing but school blame it on age (he's youngest) and his gender and seem to be bypassing the fact he showed poss signs of dyslexia