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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect medical students to know the basics?

90 replies

JuneWalker · 30/03/2010 14:47

About this time of year for several years I have acted as a "guinea pig" for medical students working on their practical skills.

Its quite an experience (for both parties) when they insert a speculum in a real patient for the first time. In the past although there have been one or two minor issues the nurse who was there 100% of the time always intervened in time.

This year there was 1 nurse for every 2 patients and Mr NHS manageer - IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

Female students have always been fine but some of the men were hopeless. I had a very sensitive part crushed by a thumb, I had one lad (looked about 12) trying to remove the speculum with the blades open and one who didn't seem to know where to put at all.

I did my 15 students but complained at the end. Got totally blanked by the doctor in charge.

Surely when they are doing something like this for the first time there should be 100% supervision???

The only good point was that this year we didn't use the dreaded stirrups and just put our feet on the examination couch. Much better.

OP posts:
emmymama · 30/03/2010 15:27

the consultant in my last pregnancy asked if she could show my cervix to the students as it was a nice example of a healthy one, i was pleased there were 2 blokes there had never seen one before

i said, i was pregnant, no doubt there would be a few more people been down there by the end

but every year?? wow!

Scrudd · 30/03/2010 15:27

I did my 15 students but complained at the end

ROFL! sorry

Gawd, you're brave. Do they pay well? I do hope so. I've applied for a job recently where if successful I would be booking people like you. I now have a better idea of what the people booked should expect. I'm not sure that's a good thing

stripeyknickersspottysocks · 30/03/2010 15:30

As a m/w I've had to bollock fully qualified Drs for inserting a speculum incorrectly. They're meant to inserth the "long measurement" so it goes top to bottom and then rotate 90 degrees. But I've seen quite a few ram it in (or attempt to) so the long measurement is side to side. Ouch!

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2010 15:34

I agree that a chaperone is vital - for your sake, June, and for the students' sakes. They do need to learn, and if they are doing it wrong, they need someone there to point out where they are going wrong!

I did laugh out loud at 'playing hunt the growler' and 'my furry front bottom', though - thankyou ladies!

GrimmaTheNome · 30/03/2010 15:34

It would be just if by 'bollock' you meant 'perform examination for testicular cancer', with the same degree of skill they had just exhibited.

emmymama · 30/03/2010 15:34

actually ive just remembered a bad experience (my first child was the first baby delivered by the student that delivered him, i think she was more emotional than i was lol)

i see a consultant because of previous losses and now anxiety because of it... she was trying to find the heart beat and couldnt an di was paniccing until the dr took it and found it

wet to a&e a few weeks ago after i fell down the stairs and he used the dopppler and found my heartbeat and thought it was the babies and said it sounded fine i ad to tell him it was too slow to be the baby!

TheChewyToffeeMum · 30/03/2010 15:43

Well - to be fair finding some cervices (sp?) can be quite tricky. But I would have expected them to have one-to-one supervision if it was their first (and indeed several subsequent) attempts. When I trained (admittedly a few years ago) I spent the afternoon with a practice nurse doing smears and watching loads before I was allowed to do one with her talking me through it. We were not allowed to do them unsupervised until we had a certain number signed off as ok.

TheChewyToffeeMum · 30/03/2010 15:44

And why on earth was there an NHS manager there?

Sassybeast · 30/03/2010 15:46

This is a wind up. Weirdo. Complete and utter bullshit and some sadddo getting their kicks perchance ?

GrimmaTheNome · 30/03/2010 15:50

And why on earth was there an NHS manager there?

because there's too many managers and not enough nurses, perchance?

LynetteScavo · 30/03/2010 15:54

Sassy...I watched a programme on TV once about volunteers like JuneWalker. There really are poeple out there who do this. For the good of others.

Sassybeast · 30/03/2010 15:56

Lynette - on the fetish channel ?

dilemma456 · 30/03/2010 15:57

Message withdrawn

SheilaT · 30/03/2010 16:03

Of course it's a wind up girls. I think some silly school boys have infriltrated Mumsnet. Who do we report this to?

uglymugly · 30/03/2010 16:13

From a quick bit of research:

www.uhl-tr.nhs.uk/work-for-us/voluntary-work/volunteer-news/volunteer-for-an-exam

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2010 16:25

I've heard of this too - I don't think it is a wind up.

When I was training as a nurse, I had a friend who was a medical student, and told me that a particular gynae consultant used to let all the students in Theatre with him do an internal exam on the women once they were anaesthatised - for practice!!

Sassybeast · 30/03/2010 16:37

There is a world of difference between volunteering to be interviewed about your medical history/symptoms and having a general physical examination (respiratory/circulatory/neurological by a medical student and lying legs akimbo whilst '15' medical students firkle around your fanjo. Trust me folks - 20 years in the NHS and I can tell you it ain't so. Unless OP - you can give me the details of the SOM involved ? Along with contact details of the co ordinator of the fanjo production line ?

Original poster
JuneWalker · 30/03/2010 16:41

It is not a beep beep wind up. The medical schools do this sort of thing all the time and quite large numbers of volunteers get involved year after year.

The only reason I posted is that this year the degree of supervision was reduced from all previous years. I had sort of hoped that somebody would be able to tell me why.

You don't use KY or equivalent to lubricate the speculum since it infers with cell cytology. You use warm water is the previous mentioned students remember to use it.

BTW I don't consider a nurse the other side of a curtain is either a chaperone or able to provide adequate supervision. You might argue the first but never the second.

OP posts:
Sassybeast · 30/03/2010 16:44

Which medical school ?

brimfull · 30/03/2010 16:47

I have never heard of volunteers doing this , only for their practical exams have I come across vounteer patients.

What med school do you do it for?

Pikelit · 30/03/2010 16:48

I realise things have got rather anatomical June but feel free to insert a fuck rather than a beep.

SPBInDisguise · 30/03/2010 16:48

"a particular gynae consultant used to let all the students in Theatre with him do an internal exam on the women once they were anaesthatised - for practice!! "

Sassybeast · 30/03/2010 16:50

SPB - I think that's probably a bit of an urban myth unless the same consultant has worked at every trust in the NHS

liath · 30/03/2010 16:50

Not the medical school I went to. We got to practice on a dummy torso. Which is just as bloody well as one of my compatriots inserted the handles of the speculum instead of the blades and another managed to insert the entire speculum, handles blades and all .

wuglet · 30/03/2010 16:51

Sassybeast it 100% does exist I promise you

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