to think that it does matter which university you go to?

[OrmRenewed]

My godson is brilliant. Bright, articulate, good-natured, good at sport and academic. He got 11A*s at GCSE. His school has told me he should apply to Oxbridge. He wants to do law.

His parents have basically conducted a campaign to discourage him. Why? As far as I can tell down to a really unpleasant reverse snobbery (Reading was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you, sort of thing). His dad maintains that all universities are as good as each other these days. AIBU in think that as the world and his wife go to university these days and now ones seem to spring up like mushrooms after rain, it matters even more that, if you can, you should take your chance to go to one of the top ones?

I am actually quite cross but it's not my business

It does matter where you go. Lots of companies will only recruit from selected RG universities, or universities with a particularly good reputation in the field of study. They do this for business reasons because it less risky and generally successful.

Ambition is one of the qualities top firms will look for, so will expect that their graduates will have exhibited this by getting onto a competitive course.

As for UCAS forms - universities do not see which other courses you have applied for. They only see you biographical info, grades, personal statement and reference. They can suspect that you have applied to Oxbridge if you get your application in before the October deadline, though.

AS module results do not carry much weight unless they are cashed in. There is a lot of weight placed on A at GCSE, with many RG universities not even looking at candidates who have fewer than 7A. They will offer based on GCSEs and teacher predicted A2 grades. The personal statement is vitally important too. A lot of universities are interviewing now, and this is often to determine whether they will give a high or low offer.

My DH did a non-Law degree at Oxford, then a Conversion course and Solicitors exams at a Poly.

The Oxford connection still had an impact at the (Big Five) firm he did his training at. Out of around 25 trainees, only around 5 did not do their first degrees at Oxbridge - interestingly the list they sent mentioned only the Uni at which they'd studied their undergrad. degree, Not the Law College they had attended.

That said, my career was not necessarily advanced by having attended Oxford (I did a social science).

But the quality of teaching there is brilliant. It is very intense because the terms are so short, and teaching is 1:1 or 1:2, plus lectures, and took a while to get used to. I chose a college that was not dominated by ex-public school pupils because I had attended a state school. I had a fantastic time there, and because of the collegiate system, socialised with people who were not on my Course.

All universities are not equal, I say that as someone who turned down her Oxford place as a hot headed youth and regretted it immensely in later life and still do. It is one of the things that has haunted me. But I was the first person in my life to go to any university and did not have any informed support.

Totally agree with you

in my old job, part of of my work was that I used to have to recruit uni leavers for fashion company roles............certain fashion schools went straight on the "no" pile, didn't even get a chance of an interview because they are well known for not teaching praticalities, & students tend to leave with a more inflated sense of what they can really do.

Another uni had a far better reputation for student leaving with a more grounded ^ a far more rounded view of what they then had to do to get into the industry, & what to expect in wages etc...they always went straight onto the "yes" pile.

I've talked about this with friends in other lines of work who also recruit, & its something we all do, as lets face it, you can't interview everyone.

Though just because Oxbridge has the best reputation from a Schools or status point of veiw, don't presume it has the best reputation in the industry. I would recomend speaking with the HR dept of a couple of Law firms, & get there opinion of what Uni s are best respected in the actual industry.

St Martins is a very highly respected Uni for Fashion, & one students fight to get a place on, & its probably great for those going straight into setting up their own businesses, or going to the big designer brand fashion houses, (who pay a lot less) it does come with a lot of connections etc........encourages creative flair, BUT students leave with very little practical grounding, thinking they can go straight into top jobs & expecting top salaries, & as with most industries, thats not how it works........in the early days I thought this was unfair & tried to give all with decent degrees a chance of an interview........but having had some very arrogant ones turn up, expecting more money than I was on, & very sniffy about what work they would do...I soon realised why it worked like that.

So like I say, I'd recommend speaking with his future employers & get THEIR opinion of what are the best law Schools

Courses run by various universities often have different reputations, rather than the universities themselves. So sometimes one course at a newer uni is far better thought of than the same course at an old uni.

Agree with pointydog, best to go by the course reputation. I went to an "upgraded polytechnic" but the course I went on was considered to be one of the best in the UK. This has been borne out by employers.

IME of law and solicitors' training contract applications - yes, as others have said, Oxbridge is a huge leg up, particularly for London city firms. I found it a mixed blessing though for applications to regional commercial law firms, who tended to have a preference for the local RG type university.

Nickschick - rather than Huddersfield, what about Leeds or Liverpool for law?

Doesn't cost more to go to Oxbridge, tuition fees are the same, and if he can, if it has the right course, yes, they will see him better than other universities.

Some courses outside Oxbridge are considered better than the Oxbridge courses though. Research required.

However "Reading was good enough for me" is silly.

LeQ is right - too many people don't know the rules of the game and some schools and parents are better than others at telling them. I do think some schools peddle myths that Middlesex University is on a par with say Cambridge because it has the world's leading expert on XYZ there when in fact employers have their own pecking order of university.

Also yes you don't need a law degree so if you can get into a better university with a degree which isn't law and the university counts and the law firms prefer the breadth of education a non law degree gives you (although you're saddled with another year of study though) then take that route. 1st in Law at Middlesex or 2/1 in a different subject at Durham say - massive difference to your future propsects.

Oh YY to convversion- a fair few froom my Uni did same degree as me then went on to Cardiff to convert. It is costly though, as is any post grad option- my MA were I to attend FT even at a new Uni would cost £9k a year; conversi0ons cost more. That's a lot of cash.

Orm methinks they have B in their blood. it's ahrd to shake when you grow up soemwhere hardly anyone else has a good thing to say about, whe I had ds1 my friends I worked with wouldn't even come in to see us, from T, though did offer to meet us by the town sign as they didn't 'do' B (prats).

//hijack - Clarrissimo - you mentioned a cousin gutted about not getting in for medicine at Oxbridge - it is a bit of a lottery for such a popular course, and just things like not having enough work experience can scupper you. I have a friend who is a consultant surgeon in a very very skilled and delicate area of work who didn't get into Oxbridge - he thinks it was down to not knowing the unwritten rules iyswim....An Oxbridge place really isn't the only measure of merit.

oh and pssst - just a nudge to check your facebook messages - i sent you a message a few days ago as in your neck of the woods at beginning of June.

Thanks TC, will pass it on. his mentor at the hospital he does work experience at has links with Bristol so he is being reassureed but I think his Mum- well she's a bit of a dragon, only let them read anything other than textbooks on tuesday (huh? I used to read anything- reading is good full stop) and even renowned for making the boys sit at her table all day for Christmas LOL becuase they didnt eat up. His older bro didnt get in either (though is clearly undiagnosed AS, scarily Mum despite bneing now a teacher with AS specialty cannot see it) and Oxbridge was not right for him in the course he wanted and he is thriving elsewhere.

TC will check FB later.

Unis known as "Oxbridge reject" unis used to be Bristol and Durham in my day. Exeter was "do art history and find a husband called Charles". Can't think of the others. They aren't all the same at all, not now, not ever!

Agree with lots of the above. Just a point though that the kids don't have the same perceptions about the 'new' Uni's as perhaps we (and those of us in a position to recruit) may still harbour from the two tier days of poly's and uni's. My stepdaughter is in final year of A levels and had no conception of this possibility and was focussed on the course and the place. Although things are changing and it is wrong to judge on previous incarnations or assume that certain degree courses / institutions have not changed or upped their game the name of the Uni will have a reputation with people in a position to hire that may well stretch beyond the here and now.

Yep and I think that's extra true with law tbh.

With my MA- well it's specialist and only a few places even offer it, I know people with Oxbridge degrees at Universities that had a terrible rep even as a Poly (back when I was a young 'un- so about 18 yers ago- the one I am thinking of offered a teaching palce to a friend who got 2 d's adn an e at a level, in art, history and sociology). But as it is a specialist course you take it where it can be found.

Not so Law. law you go from for teh biggest trnsactional value which has to be Oxbridge or guildford seems to crop up a lot (but have no idea).

Op - you say it's not your business.

Actually I think it is. You're his godmother, I reckon giving him support and advice is exactly what you're there to do?

On the actual uni question - agree with all those saying that employers differentiate massively between unis. But it's also important that he has a good time while he's there, so if I were you I'd be encouraging him to go to as many open days as he can. And lots of places have summer schools - I'd also try and see if places he's interested in run any.

Lastly - agree with those saying that Oxbridge generally speaking much cheaper than elsewhere. Mainly because almost everyone gets (cheap) college accommodation, and food in hall is subsidised too.

Good luck to him (and you!)

from my personal experience of being poor at Oxbridge:-

1. there is some work available inside the college in term time - shifts in college bar, and college library. college library shifts in particular were an absolute doss. might also be work for the university too. and some people did work in pubs etc in termtime without getting noticed/in trouble. the terms are so short anyway that plenty of scope for holiday jobs. I used to work in a cinema call centre in the holidays.

1. many colleges can give you accommodation for all your course. you only pay for term-time, whilst house leases are usually a full 12 months plus bills.

1. different colleges have different feels - some are more stuck up traditional than others. some pride themselves on having a large proportion of state school pupils. The former women's colleges tend to be more laid back, but less well off for things like book grants etc.

I was an Oxbridge reject. Got an interview to study law but changed my mind just before the interview and told them I wanted to do ENglish. They didn't like that much

I went to Cardiff. DIdn't fancy Bristol much - full of yahs.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if it has moved on.

In my exprerience, applying to Cambridge meant that I got lower offers from other unis (including an unconditional from Manchester). I actually asked them about it at the open day and they said that as they were pretty certain Cambridge would be my first choice, they'd basically do anything to be my insurance offer!

Also, Oxbridge is actually likely to be a cheaper option than the majority of unis, because you live in college all three years, and lots of colleges have well-suported hardship funds.

Hopefully he'll apply where he wants regardless of what his parents think, as (again in my experience) Oxbridge can open doors to all sorts of opportunities, not just for high level jobs but more basic things too.

Total Chaos- because of reasons probably pathetic he and I still want him to live at home rather than in digs.

Nicks - not pathetic at all, I was suggesting those Unis as they are good Unis that I thought might be within commuting distance. So do you live somewhere between Manchester and Huddersfield then, would have thought Leeds might be commutable if Huddersfield is. Or Bradford might be worth considering.

Studying a subject other than Law, then doing a year's conversion course tends to be well received by law firms, but obviously takes long er and costs more.

OrmRenewed, it does absolutely matter which university you choose in my experience. I did Imperial / Cambridge and it has opened doors all the way through my career. Encourage your Godson if you can to go for it, ultimately it is his decision to make, not his parents.

I think the boy should apply for where ever he would like to go, and see where he gets in and then decide.

His parents sound, quite frankly, odd.

Encourage your godson to think about where he wants to go - he's going to be an adult and he's the one affected by the choice.

Unless you know you really want to study something very specialist wherever the top place is, "study a subject people have heard of at the best university you can get into" is still the best advice I've ever had. Although a warning would be useful to him that wherever he goes to uni, he will meet people with more money than sense. Be friends with them, but don't be tempted to spend like them!

Cambridge's long holidays were very useful for getting much better temp jobs during holidays, as more places will consider someone for a 12-week summer stint, and for other holidays you're getting home before the competition arrive.

Yes it matters which university.

Argh, I really dislike the holding back attitude described here. Why try and hold your children back?

(the pil have these tendencies, I don't let it anywhere near my dc).