to think that it does matter which university you go to?

[OrmRenewed]

My godson is brilliant. Bright, articulate, good-natured, good at sport and academic. He got 11A*s at GCSE. His school has told me he should apply to Oxbridge. He wants to do law.

His parents have basically conducted a campaign to discourage him. Why? As far as I can tell down to a really unpleasant reverse snobbery (Reading was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you, sort of thing). His dad maintains that all universities are as good as each other these days. AIBU in think that as the world and his wife go to university these days and now ones seem to spring up like mushrooms after rain, it matters even more that, if you can, you should take your chance to go to one of the top ones?

I am actually quite cross but it's not my business

They do hold more value in terms of the qual.

It is not however the only consideration, albeit a significant one.

For example I rejected an RG Uni to attend a new Uni- because by then I had a family and the new Uni emant I could still afford a rent for a liveable house and tha schools were acceptable.

The world and his wife may well go to Uni these days, that doesn't mean all new Uni degrees are woirthless. DH is at a new Uni and it is a course that industry loves in his narrow field (there is no RG equvalent anyway). A freind's son has turned down a degree at an Oxbridge Uni becuase his preferred uindustry wants a different background than the degree there offers (they want technical skills as well as creative). You have to weigh the value of an RG degree or similar (and beleive me I would have adored the chance to study at Bristol all being equal) with your own lifestyle needs and also with what yuour industry actually say they want. Usually the better University wins. not always.

OP -YANBU, not all universities are the same.

Nottingham University is great though

Oh and also:

a degree is only one level, you can always bump a new Uni degree up with extra quals- I am doing an MA for example, and that can be done at an RG if wanted.

and also sorry about the typing, I know it amkes me look thicvk when i type about education etc but I have a level of VI and as dusk falls using MN gets harder. Esp. as I lost my galsses

Orm: I think it is your business! He is your godson, that is the next-best thing to his own parents.

It would be good if you could be a impartial sounding board for him to help him make his mind up (he's the one that's got to do the degree, after all) and help him evaluate the conflicting pressure from parents, school etc.

PMSL LeQ

I think new uni's are fine if you accept that there really is a lesser value aplced on that degree. That doesn't make the degree worthless and there are a thousand reaons why the Univeriosty may be better for you as an applicant but you should be aware that you might ahve to fight ahrder to make the differences up.

And probably triply so if youa re looking at law and the trad subjects- DS23 fancies Animal Sciecne and frankly for what he wishes to fio with it he may as well go to Cannington College as the benefits of being close to my family down there outweight the value of heading towards a degree (he wants HND) he doesn't actually ever need (my sister is in same field and has never used hers at all, thinks the top up was a waste). And if you want to be a teacher as long as you can get a PGCE place etc. But law- hmm, I would be urging him to think again tbh. very, very carefully.

DS2

of course you know that Orm but hmm, even I have my limits pmsl

As a lawyer myself I can assure you that as silly as it sounds to many, where you go to university DOES make a difference. DH went to Cambridge, I got my law qualifications from a former poly. He almost always gets an interview on the basis of his Cambridge background but once through the door he has to show he's worth the job. Oh, and we're both now 9 years qualified and it STILL matters!

Makes a huge difference in law. Orm, take your godson aside and organise him in the Oxbridge direction. His parents are seriously deluded or giving voice to a massive inferiority complex they're suffering from. There is absolutely no need to make the interview process after graduation more of a character-builder than it has to be. Getting though that interview door after graduation is priceless. The more selective universities generally do better with financial aid of various kinds than others, so money shouldn't be the issue.

Orm, is your Godson from B?

If so i'd go with a mix of inferiority complex and general fear of the unknown IYSWIM.

My childhood best friend's sister grew up near us and got a palce at what was then Somerville Ladies; she ended up as a Barrister and I beleive now lectures at an Oxbridge Uni. I don't once recall her ever voicing any feelings of difference or inferiority despite being far from monied (she went to T School, but on scholarship).

Hope he does go for it.

Oooh Emsy and Brahms I got totally conned at school then! I changed schools for my A-Levels from a private school at which I had lots of extra classes in readiness to apply to Oxbridge to a good grammar whose results were better. They were the ones who told me to worry that other unis might not offer etc. They must have put off so many people! I do remember thinking that it was odd that other unis could see where you were applying because it didn't seem to make sense, but I assumed (therein lies the problem obviously) that they knew what they were talking about. Hark at me spouting off rubbish! Thanks for putting me straight, I have laboured under a delusion for years! An irrelevant one for me as it turned out, but a delusion none the less.

MrsC, I think it did used to be like that (I won't ask your age but it hasn't been for..hmm...maybe 10 or 15 years?

Orm: I agree with you - if he has the ability he should definitely apply to Oxbridge. It is really obvious when you look at the league tables that there is a difference and also see who gets employed where.

I think you should encourage him and have a word with his parents.

The way that universities know you have applied to Oxford now is that your application must be sent to UCAS before 15 October whereas applications to all other universities need to be submitted by January. The better universities are stuffed full with Oxbridge rejects so it can't be that difficult for good candidates to get a place at what is obviously not their first choice.
Back in the past you had to put universities in order of preference and certain universities (Bristol comes to mind) would not offer places to people who had put them lower down the choices list, but now there is no order of preference and the universities don't know which other universities you have applied to (apart from the date clue for Oxbridge).

I didn't want to probe ivykate. Dad got a bit defensive. I am seeing the whole family next weekend - I will try to broach the subject with the lad. It makes me a bit sad that they aren't supporting him.

violet - sorry. I guess I was guilty of AIBU by stealth

Are his parents worried that everyone else at Oxford will be ex Eton/rugby/harrow, etc and that he won't fit in?

Or are they worried about him changing and becoming like an ex-Etonian? Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with old Etonians but they might not be happy with this image?

Lovecat - My Mum went to Oxford having got her A Levels from a comprehensive in Gateshead, her family were properly geordie working class.

She loved it, said she found more friends there than she ever had at school and it was one of the best times of her life.

So I wouldn't say that only the privately educated upper class are comfortable there.

LeQueen - Even degrees from ex-polys in bollocks-all have some value, I worked closely with the recruitment department of a large blue-chip company for a little while last year. They chucked any CV from someone who didn't have a degree in the bin for any job, no matter how junior as they were over-subscribed. If you want to live abroad as well many countries won't grant working visas to people without degrees.

If he's anything like most teenage boys and my own children as teenagers, then he will want to do anything is parents suggest is not a good idea. May be they have reverse psychology going on. He should also talk to the school about whether he'sll get in. He may need to think about a tactical entry and pick his college well and possibly not even do law but do it later and pick a less popular subject to aid his chances of getting in but he might of course be a dead cert for it so those points won't matter.

YANBU. I think his parents are showing an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. It is the attitude that their children are not good enough for places like Oxford and Cambridge, that they would struggle there, and that they would be happier and better off in a 'normal' university. I think this is exactly the same attitude that so many parents show towards grammar schools and the 11+. They think that a grammar is too good for their children, that they will struggle there and their confidence will be knocked. They think their children will be better off at the local comprehensive.

It is not really inverse snobbery. It is a lack of aspiration, a fear of failure and a feeling that these places are not for people like us. It is not really their fault. It's just that they don't know enough people who have been there, it's just that they don't know any better.

Ahhh, thanks for that Brahms, I did leave do A-levels 11 yrs ago so maybe they weren't totally pulling the wool over my eyes!

Anyone wanting to enter the legal profession and not applying to Oxbridge or a RG university when they have the opportunity to do so is limiting their career chances. Quite considerably IME. I've done my share of graduate recruiting and the university applicants have attended is heavily influential.

I've said this before on these 'Oxford is wonderful' threads, but if asked my opinion, I would advise my DCs not to go to Oxbridge. Obviously it is not my decision to make, and they have to make those choices myself.

While I think it is important that people go to a reputable university and do an appropriate course, I think that there are other good universities that are in really amazing cities. Having been brought up in a rural area, I think my DCs could really benefit from spending their late teens in a great city.