to think some parents are completely lacking in brains when it comes to dogs?

[AnnieLobeseder]

I was leaving DD1's after-school club today, with my two dogs (on short leashes as children around) and the DDs, when we passed a man with a toddler in his arms. The little boy was leaning over to reach my dogs, going "doggy doggy" as toddlers do. And what does his idiot dad do? Without a single word to me brings the boy down to dog height and sticks his kid's face right in my large dog's face so the boy could pat them. WTF!?!?!?

I said to him that perhaps it was an idea to ask people if it was OK before letting his child touch strange dogs. He said "it's OK, he likes dogs". So I asked what if my dogs didn't like kids. He just shrugged and pointed to my two girls, which I guess means he assumed that since I have children, my dogs are lacking any inclination to react when strange children's faces are suddenly thrust in theirs.

As it happens, large dog recently had a bit of a problem with biting, though it was only on our property and training seems to have sorted her out.

But good holy lord of all things holy, what an idiot! I just hope that poor boy never does get bitten if he isn't taught to respect strange dogs. I teach my two never to touch a dog without asking the owner first.

so stupid isn't it

and who would he blame if his kid got bitten? not himself, that's for sure

I make my kids ask the dog owners if they can pet their dogs before they can touch a dog, most of the time the owners say its fine, but we have had the odd occasion when the owner has said 'no, s/he is a bit snappy with children' which is fine too. Why would anyone risk that??

YANBU I actually quite like dogs but I am always a little nervous when my children are around strange dogs, today for example my 3 year old starting running close to a large dog in the park, since the dog was off the lead I called my son closer to me rather than have him potentially upset the dog (son stepped in said dogs poo on the way back over to me maybe nature was giving me a message lol). I would never wave him in the face of a strange dog.

YANBU - my child can only touch my bf's parent's dog who is always at their house when we visit and is soft as muck and very friendly.

We can say "hello dog" and "good bye dog" and wave at the dog, but no touching.

I simply do not want to risk it.

Silly man.

I would never let my kids pet anyones dog, you just never know. Better to be safe than sorry

YANBU!! Why can't people take a sensible line between gathering up their children and running and sticking their child in a strange dog's face?! There seems to be few options in between! I'm amazed at the number of parents who let their kids thump pat my dogs, because they are small and look cute, and don't even ask me first.

Completely agree.

Also works both ways. There is a man who walks his unmuzzled and dangerous dog regularly past the primary school at going home time. No idea of the breed but it's medium sized, square bodied and powerfully compact. Dog has attacked and scarred someone before, in fact he was sued by the victim. Young children are unpredictable and inclined to reach out and pat a dog. This one looks lovely but has a lot of power.

But in both cases, it's cretinous people who are the problem.

I heard that they are bringing in a law if your dog is not chipped they take it away

I don't understand this post...of course parents should ask before they let their children pat a strange dog but why would ANYONE keep a (large) dog that may "have a bit of a problem with biting" when they have children in the house? THAT is unreasonable.

TM it appears that the proposal has been thrown out of the window. IMO this is just as well as it would serve only to have more dogs PTS for want of rescue space and homes and do nothing to stop anti-social canine behaviour.

I have had the same sort of problems with my 2 large dogs AL. Hence I'm always quick to invite children to stroke my soppy GSD (with parent/carers permission first) though not my Lab x who isn't as friendly, using the opportunity to tell the DC as they do that they must ALWAYS ask the owner before they stroke any strange dog. I don't know what bugs me more, those who allow their DC to approach my dogs without asking or those who pass by giving me and my dogs filthy looks and hauling their child out of the way as if both my dogs and I have threatened to attack them.

I taught my DC, brought up with dogs from the day they were born, to stand well back and wave at the dog to say hello. If then an owner said they could stroke the dog my girls would, whilst I reinforced the message that they must always wait to be told they might do so.

It's surely not that hard is it?!

Shona, clearly AL recognised and dealt with her dog's problems, with professional help. I can't speak for AL of course but as one who also has a large dog who isn't keen on certain people I can assure you that it is perfectly possible, with the correct approach and willingness to work at it, to overcome such problems and keep one's family safe at the same time.

Not everyone can do this admittedly. I'd even like to go so far as to say that it takes a certain, perhaps special, type of person, without trying to sound bigheaded because I've done it myself. But, it's certainly not impossible to achieve and safely too.

As a rescue worker I'd say well done AL, good for you - I'm delighted to hear a success story and to know that your dog avoided being placed in rescue or killed in a pound.

I'm in total agreement here. This is, I'm sure how a lot of accidents happen.

My last dog had a very gentle nature and I used to walk her school every day.
When she was tied to the gate outside school, I would always be being keeping an eye on her and I'd constantly see kids stroking and hugging her, even toddlers!
Obviously I wouldn't have done this if she was unsure of kids, but parents shouldn't rely on this.

My DCs are always told to ask before approaching a strange dog.

We have always told our DS (nearly 3) to 1) ask the owner before we stroke a strange dog 2) wait for a reply, then if yes 3) put your hand out so the dog can smell it and 4) NEVER pat a sleeping or feeding dog...

HOWEVER....

Our next-door neighbours (and friends!) had a very uncontrollable dog (they themselves call her 'psycho dog') who is, I think, about 5 or 6 now... never obeys orders... always leaping up on people, etc, etc - who last week rushed out of her house and did the 'kill manoeuver' (grab dog by scruff of neck and shake from side to side) on a smaller dog. Now, they face vets' bills, etc. etc.

In this scenario, what am I supposed to do to protect my child?! I've already told DH that DS will NEVER be allowed to pat this dog ever again, that we must always scoop him up in our arms when we see her - but she's the next-door neighbour's dog! - we see her all the time! She's NOT a strange dog, and DS is very good with dogs - but clearly, she is a problem dog.

What would you all do?

I would understand your caution and without knowing the dog, the neighbours or the whole situation, advise you to continue to ensure that your son doesn;t interact with the dog. Love dogs as I do, it's better to be safe than sorry.

BUT I must stress that a dog with dog-aggression issues is NOT necessarily a dog which will be aggressive towards humans. My last foster dog was a bitch, literally and metaphorically, towards my Lab x, who is very tolerant of other canines, but is a complete fuss-pot towards people and one I would have no worries about allowing a well behaved child to stroke and interact with.

I do appreciate though that your neighbour's dog is an unknown quantity to you in many respects... she isn't yours, you don't know entirely what he's like in the home or with people, whether she is less tolerant with children than adults and so on. As an adult yourself you can read body language and ask appropriate questions, be vigilant to warning signals and make an intelligent judgement but of course your son's too small to do so. All good reason imho and ime to take the line you do although "scooping him up2 may not be the best approach unless necessary. I'd say it would be wiser to keep reinforcing the "don't touch without permission" rule and only physically remove your lad when you think there is genuine risk. That way you won't make all dogs a subject of fear to your son and won't make him someone the dog will want all the more to investigate.

I must emphasise that I know quite a few dogs which have issues with other dogs through my rescue work but many, many of these would live very harmoniously with children. Until you are convinced that the neighbours dog is like this however it's perfectly understandable and sensible that you should be cautious.

OP YANBU - silly man!

I always make my DS wait until I have asked if the dog is ok with children (he's too little to ask himself) and keep him away from the dog if the owner is unsure.

What a complete fuckwit. I swear some people don't have the sense they're born with. Why why why would you do that? I wouldn't even do that with my own dog, let alone a strange one!!!

It is very important to teach children to ask before approaching a dog - not all dogs love people making a fuss of them and why should they?? (Obviously I'm not saying it would be OK for them to bite etc, but at the same time, they aren't public property just because they're a dog).

Thanks, Vallhala - that all seems eminently reasonable, and nice to hear back from a really doggy person (which I have to admit I am not!) Despite not being a dog lover myself, I have always been very chuffed that DS IS - I think it's a lovely trait to be kind to animals, show respect for all creatures on the earth, etc - I just keep getting mental images of him being swung by the neck by this dog (God, can't even type that without getting teary...)

But what you say is true - we (DH and I) don't want to do anything to reinforce a negative/fearful image of all dogs, and will just have to be vigilant around this one... Also, won't be able to scoop him up so much in the near future (not that he really wants me to do this with him at all.. far too interested in running fast in opposite direction to where I am going...) as I'm 36 weeks pregnant, and scooping-up abilities seriously compromised

I must be one of those lacking in brains parents. I often take my dog up to meet ds2 at school gates - I stand quite far back, only so's not to block the pavement, but the children often pat him on the way past and I've never thought anything of it.

Annie, I think you're being unreasonable, I'm sorry.

Yes, it's daft to put your small child very close to a dog BUT how would the man know this, there is no public education campaign about dogs - he may never have had one.

He may also be reacting to the many people who seem to complain that children seem frightened and parents overprotective when their dogs would not be out in the street or around their own children if they were liable to bite.

Can you see what I'm saying? Obviously I advise my childrent to ask first, but that's because I know to - but I've been accused of over protectiveness for doing so.
can you imagine a parallel thread along those lines? I certainly can.

It may have been daft of him but please have a little tolerance of those who do not know your dog. All dogs are different.

fartmeistergeneral - it's different if you are at the end of the lead and you know your dog likes/doesn't mind the attention of all & sundry (I had one like that - the only danger anyone was ever in was getting licked to death!!). However, if you in turn allow your DC's to go up to strange dogs without asking if it's ok... then I guess, if the cap fits

"All dogs are different" exactly sausage!

That's why you should encourage children to ask the person who knows the dog if it's ok to stroke.

well, I do - but not everyone knows this. That's all I'm saying. It might not mean they have no brain though, just need educating, which I know OP tried to do in this case - but it seems mean to say the man was stupid.

I'm always getting stick for asking about dogs, or calling my children away if they run up to a dog. it's hard to find a happy medium when many dog owners can be so defensive.

A little tolerance, that's all. And surely if a dog has a propensity to bite, it ought to be muzzled? (another ignorant question, sorry)

Some people have no common sense. I once read an account of a woman in America who was out in the woods with her family when they came across a wild bear. The woman thought it would be a great photo-op if she smeared honey onto her little child's hand for the bear to lick off - and was surprised when the bear bit the hand off.

I do think a campaign to publicise the common-sense approach of always asking the dog's owner before approaching the dog, would be a good idea, but I can also see how the man would assume that a dog that is with children is OK with other children - if he's not a dog person, he may not have realised that a dog can be fine with its own people but not with strangers.

No one knows about muzzle thing then? I'd be interested.

YANBU- I wouldn't encourage my child to pet a dog unless I had checked with the owner first. Owners need to take responsibility too- when my DD was a toddler a dog bit her in a park- it was off the lead, and she was toddling along- the horrible little dog just ran up to her, and she instinctively put her hands out to it, and it nipped her- the owner seemed to think this was funny- I know it was inly a small dog, but it should have been on a lead!