to think that the 6yr old little boy upstairs shouldn't be clattering around their flat untill 11pm, every night?

[Narabug]

Hi all,

Firstly, please let me say that I totally appreciate that it must be hard both raising and actually being a young child in a small, upstairs flat and I have nothing against the family upstairs.

Its just that, every night, until about 11pm, their little boy (just 6, they had a birthday party last week) runs around the flat, leaping off furniture and shouting/shrieking. It sounds like nothing more than a child playing, you can hear him running from room to room, shouting, laughing, punctuated by an occasional thud.

I've been round one night to ask if they could maybe be a little quieter (again, not to tell the kid to shut up, that wouldn't seem very kind), but they don't speak much English, their response was a polite "no, thank you", I think they thought I was doing doorstep sales.

These flats are quite soundproof, you can't usually hear anything from upstairs, apart from when their son is playing. It wouldn't bother me usually apart from it disturbs my DD (10 months) when i'm trying to settle her for bed, and surely its not good for him to be up so late, every night?

Jx

How can you be sure it's the little boy?

'Not jugdemental but it is a scientific fact that children at that age need at least 11 hours sleep.

If he is within the education system in this country his day will start around 9 oclock.

That adds up to a tired child who's education will suffer!

If that is jugdemental then I apologise, as that certainly wasn't what I meant to be!'

Yes it is judgemental, because

assumption 1) the idea that every child needs at least 11 hours sleep is complete nonsense,

assumptinon 2) even if it were not, the assuption that the only time a child could get this sleep was from 9pm-8am is also extremely judgemental.

and then you make a huge leap to 'a tired child's education will suffer'.

Well perhaps it might, but who says this child is tired, let alone falling behind in his education. You can't just go around imposing your own cultural values onto how other people live their lives!

Cant do links so no.
The Times on Saturday had a whole section about sleep and how important it is for children and adults. Not that long ago.

I come from a medical background and also have three children of my own.

In my very humble experience a tired child struggles to learn.
DD1 is on G&T register. She struggles to cope on less than 10 hours and she is 11.

In my very humble experience a tired adult makes mistakes that could lead to the loss of anothers life. Driving, surgery etc etc.

I certainly was not making it a cultural issue, I was just pointing out that a child needs more sleep than it sounded like that child was/is getting.

Sorry.

Are they foreign ? Maybe they don't have this odd British mania for getting their children in bed at 6pm...

I would disagree that all children need 11hrs of sleep at the age of 6. DS1 never had that amount of sleep but has been in G&T since he was 5.
DS2 went to sleep at 10.45 tonight and will be up by 7 wide awake and full of beans until he goes to bed tomorrow night.

ooppss posted too soon, meant to add I let them determine when they are tired enough to sleep.

Maybe thats the non english side of me coming out lol

who gives a shit about how much sleep the kid needs or where they are from? Its anti-social and bloody rude to be making that much noise at 11pm, whether you are 2, 92, english, or from the bloody moon.

That goes for my neighbours too, try sending your kids to school during the day and to bed at night like the rest of us, you noisy bastards.

Unfortunatly there is noise from every corner tbh. My neighbours upstairs are noisy until early hours of the morning, but i have 2 ds's and I am sure they hear them as well.

runnybottom nailed it!

If you are in a flat your lease will more than likely have something about noise. Anything after 10pm is usually considered antisocial. Freeholders still need to uphold the conditions of the lease.

I would go down the "polite note" route. It is NEVER a good idea to fall out with your neighbours (I worked for CAB for years and neighbour disputes caused more grief than anything), but I don't think anyone can take offence at a "you probably aren't aware, but when your son is playing late at night we're finding the noise difficult" type of note.

Can you try to find out where they are from and try to get someone to write a note to them in their own language - just explain that the banging/shouting is really loud downstairs at night and is keeping you and your baby awake - so if they could please be a little more aware that would be great.... and hope for the best, if it doesn't then improve I think your leasehold/freehold agreement is the next step.

Good Luck!!

agree with runnybottom!

He's running about, shouting and laughing not playing heavy metal at full volume

What runnybottom said.

Brassband - sometimes the constant thudding from running feet can easily be on par with banging music!

I like what has been introduced round my way now - no flats are allowed to have anything other than carpet and lino with underlay in kitchen/bathroom. This is to lessen footstep noises. Suits me as well as I prefer carpet! Doesn't mean I can't hear the guy downstairs when he plays music loud or the family at the bottom screaming and shouting at each other, but it helps a lot.

I would be extremely aware of DS jumping around at that time of night. Then again, I am a considerate neighbour

Totally with runnybottom.

Only on MN is it wrong to complain about your neighbours being anti social because they don't speak English.

Who cares what language they speak. It's rude, inconsiderate and anti social to make a racket at 11pm in a flat.

DS2 has never, to the best of my knowledge, had 11 hours sleep in one night! He's now 27 and seems to have managed very well on inadequately short nights. But I have to say that there's a huge difference between not getting 11 hours sleep and not going to bed. Because it would have done my head in watching my own children running around all evening! I thought it was helpful for all sorts of reasons to have a bedtime routine for school nights and, as pre-school children to try and get some sort of adult time in the evening. Going to sleep, not being the same thing as going to bed,

But it is difficult to complain without coming across as judgy and I think another attempt to talk to the upstairs neighbours might be the best course of action. Letters come across as terribly formal.

I sent a note to my neighbours upstairs once who always put their washing machine on at 7:30am when I was still in bed and I was disgruntled at the regular rude awakening.

The note requested they put their washing machine on after 9 and they sent one shirty one back saying they think 8:30am is late enough. I sent them a box of chocolates and a thank you note as I appreciated their compromise.

millions of kids in other cultures thrive with a later bed time, so YABU

its just us brits that dispatch out kids at 7pm

They can stay up all night if they want as long as they are not making a racket and disturbing their neighbours.

Its not about cultural practice or parenting, its about common decency, manners, and having the slightest regard for other people.

It sounds like nothing more than a child playing....

err hardly antisocial behaviour

I get its annoying, but this is what we have to live with. My neighboirs kids make a racket sometimes but I dont get all po faced about it

MorrisZapp and Runnybotton have said it in one,it is not about culture it is about consideration. TOUGH! a polite note or word and obviously maintain good neighbourly relations when dealing with them is key. It does not matter where in the world they come from or whether they can speak good enough English and this should never be used as an excuse for inconsiderate behaviour. Rant over!

Yes but the OP does live in a flat and with that comes this sort of thing. Her neighbours probably hear her baby crying and havent said anything and probably in fact get up later than the OP and havent said anything.

I dont think you can complain about kids noise - parties, music etc all fair game but not this.

Eventually I resigned myself to only living on the top floor as I couldnt cope with being downstairs and the noise it brings.

totally with runnybottom.

What's all this rubbish about "oh, in their culture..."

ARSE! They're making a noise at 11pm. The End.

Kids running screaming, jumping at 11pm? What planet are you people on that this would not do your nut in?
Planet I live in a detached house I reckon. Children playing can make a horrendous amount of noise, which if they want to be doing at 11pm, they should be doing very quietly!

My daughter does this- in her room, mostly, as I put her up around seven so she at least has the opportunity for sleep.

I have moved her bedroom to one that does not abutt the adjoining houses (ie the outrigger in our terrace) after the neighbours said it was disturbing them.

She bangs, jumps from wardrobes, upturns her bed and laughs like Grace Poole for much of the night.

She is autistic.

For all you know he could have adhd or some sort of special needs which affect his sleep and activity levels.

I have done my best to keep disruption to a minimum so it is mainly me who doesn't get the sleep/peace and quiet which are reasonable. I guess I couldn't do this if we had a flat though.