to consider myself a feminist whilst also liking to wear makeup and be attractive (to men)?

[kittycat37]

I was watching that BBC 4 'Women' programme and it was suggested that considering oneself a feminist and wanting to wear makeup/wear clothes that emphasise femininity were somehow contradictory.

I honestly feel I can be a feminist and also want to emphasise my feminity through makeup / clothes. AIBU?

faddle...are you Jane Goldman ?

TheFallenMadonna - I would like to say they are just emblematic of femaleness..but it's not as simple as that is it?

What I mean is that I suspect I have internalised 'feminine' stereotypes that I then re-create in the way that I dress as this somehow feels 'right' because of social conditioning. Yet these stereotypes go beyond simple 'femaleness' because they are partly informed by the commidification of female images in advertising etc For instance, to be straightforwardly 'female' rather than 'feminine' wouldn't one have to go bra-less and not create a particular aesthetic through underwear?

I don't know if this makes any sense whatsover - I'm just trying to think through a hunch I have about my own self proscribed codes of dressing.

Don't worry about sounding 'hectoring' - I started this thread because I wanted a debate and possible re-education. You don't have to mind your Ps & Qs.

But then by your own definition it isn't very feminist to emphasise your internalisation of sexist stereotypes?

I don't know. There seem to be so many of these threads at the moment, and everyone is talking about how it;s all about 'choice', and I think it can't be all about that, can it? Surely it's about questioning why we make those choices in the first place?

FallenMadonna - that's what I'm trying to get at - I just suspect that my own 'choices' are no such thing even though for years I've thought of them as such. Oh fucking hell - I'm confusing myself. I'm going to bed. Cheers for replies all.

The hair thing is totally socially learnt behaviour - I couldn't believe some of the responses on that thread. Completely oblivious to the different cultural norms prevalent. However as a feminist in a Western society I accept that my standards of beauty are culturally dictated (and shave my underarms in summer). Doesn't mean I'm not one (although did we all did judge Ruth Kelly on her terrible dress sense and unkempt brows)?

I think WRT 'sexy' clothing, that there is nothing wrong with sexual display, particularly when you are looking for sex - sexual display is something that both men and women, straight and gay, engage in sometimes. But there are times when either sexual display or looking/asking for sex are not appropriate (while picking out a coffin for someone, for instance, or applying for a mortgage).

Oh God, that reminds me of what I posted on a recent thred about embarrassing mix-ups you've made- you know, like pouring orange juice in your coffee instead of milk...I once posted nude photographs of myself to my mortgage lender and hole-punched my bank statement and put it in the back of DP's art portfolio.

No, I did not get a more favourable rate

Feminism = Equal rights

/thread

"Some of us want to wear lipstick to the bra burning."

well I am not really sure how you define feminist but I would probably not use the word to describe myself at all. I dont wear makeup and dress plainly and probably the opposite to sexy not sure where that leaves me!.

fernie3, would you object to being denied a job because you are female? Do you think girls as well as boys should have access to education? Do you think women have the right to wear what they like and do what they like without asking a man? These are some of the things feminists are interested in and there are many, many women around the world who do not yet have fair treatment.

I think being a feminst is being free to dress almost in anyway that you chose. I so happy my Dad came over here and we stayed. I love the fact I don't have to wear a burka. That he would start to tell me off for wearing a short white skirt. I told him I was going to play tennis and he just said 'Oh!that's okay then' I love the fact that he was free to allow his daughter to dress in anyway that she want to within his self-impossed 'I'm your dad' type of way (He insisted I wore a bra!) I hated wearing a bra! It was okay for me to go swimming in a swimsuit with him. OH! such freedom that my cousins never experienced. At 30 my Dad thought it was important for me to have a baby even though I had no partner!!! if you knew my Dad this was a very big change in attitude. I didn't but I love him for that conversation. My Dad the unaware feminist.

that's a lovely post starbear.