Do you think my mother is being manipulative?

[Treats]

I had my first baby last September and both my mother and my MIL are absolutely over the moon and very involved grandmothers. My sister also had a baby three weeks after me and we've become very close through our shared experiences and have supported each other a lot.

I briefly discussed with my sister the possibility of going away together in the summer - hiring a cottage with our husbands and babies so that we could share activities or babysit for each other while we do our own thing. For various reasons, it's not going to happen, which is fine. But I made the mistake of mentioning it to my mother who immediately started hassling me to go away for a week with them. Now from my point of view, this is a very different proposition - not least for DH - they're a different generation, they would want to do different things and my mum would want to spend lots of playing time with DD but not much hands on care. There wouldn't be the mutual support we would get with going away with my sister.

I tried to find a way of saying no that wouldn't upset her, but she wouldn't let it go. She kept on saying "But you wanted to go away with your sister". I felt like I was being goaded into losing my temper with her so that she could be the victim and the injured party and I would then be forced to make reparations - i.e. back down and go on holiday with them. She really wouldn't let it go and I felt very resentful about it.

I thought the whole thing had gone away - they went on a big trip round NZ and it's only been mentioned briefly since they got back, in a 'did you think any more about coming away with us in the summer' kind of way. But yesterday, she called to say that they've booked a cottage in Norfolk for the first week in July. Well blow me if DH and I haven't also booked a week in Norfolk in the first week of July!!! Which she knew full well.

AIBU to think that she's just trying to find another way to get her own way? But what do I do? I'm tempted to thwart her every attempt to meet up while we're both there, but that would be really childish and, actually, a shame for everyone - not least my DD and my dad (although my DH wouldn't mind!!). But I really hate the idea that she thinks she's entitled to invade our private holiday and trample all over my wishes.

How should I handle this??

How awkward - that's really naughty of your mum. I think you need to tell her that you won't be intending to spend lots of time with them as youwant to spend time as a family. Then she can cancel it if that's not what she had in mind.

You're right - I probably need to nip it in the bud by saying 'we'll be at x place on y date if you want to join us' but not inviting her to anything else or meeting up at any other time.

Do you think there's any way of getting through to her that I'm really annoyed about it without giving her an excuse to pretend that I'm being unreasonable and have really upset her? I worry that if I don't tell her this time that I think this is unacceptable that we'll spend the rest of DD's childhood peering round corners and staking out beaches to check that she's not following us around every time we go on holiday. Or that the whole "why don't you want to go away with us" will come back next year....

I like SugarMousePink's idea. Although, you could try telling her that you want to try a holiday as a new family just by yourselves. Like a mini-adventure .

If she questions why you were planning to go with your sister just say you changed your mind and this seems a better idea anyway.

She can only be manipulative if you let yourself be manipulated. You're in control of the situation - you dont have to see her in Norfolk if you don't want to just cos you're in the same county. OTOH, why not use the opportunity to ask whether she'd mind having your LO for an afternoon or an evening so you and your DH can enjoy some holiday time alone. She's obviously very keen to be involved.

Agree with Sugarmouse, ask all about your mum's plans, but make sure to say that everything she mentions just isn't your cup of tea.

Do try to make light of it with her, its not worth falling out over. Just mention many, many times how you are SO looking forward to time as a family, just the three of you.

If she wants to make firm plans to meet up, say it would be lovely and to call you that week when she's free, tell her you are looking forward to a whole relaxing week without plans or schedules. What a shame you'll have something lovely suddenly planned for the day she wants to meet up.

it could be a good thing - she could have your dd in her cottage whilst you have a shagfest

I know MudandRoses which is why I'm having a proper think about the best way to handle this before she starts asking about our holiday plans. I'm not averse to asking her to babysit, but I'd worry that she'd use it as an opportunity to push for other times to meet up. Also - tbh - I'm not sure what DH and I would want to do in Norfolk together that we couldn't do without DD IYSWIM - so we wouldn't get much benefit from having the babysitting but would then be obliged to return the favour.

I sound very churlish don't I

Or if you are really evil - you could cancel your holiday in Norfolk (tell her the cottage owners withdrew their offer or something) and book another cottage in Scotland or wales or somewhere!

She is cheeky. I would hate being bullied like that.

I'd be rebooking for the following week if I was you.

Rebooking was the first thing I thought of . However - ironically - we've already rebooked once (and had to pay an extra £100) to make sure that we could go to a family thing that my mum wanted us to attend!!

Also, wrt the shagfest - even though we're both in Norfolk, the village we're staying in is about an hour's drive from where they've booked. So there would be no convenient way for them to babysit without actually being in our cottage. We have no scruples about having a shagfest while DD is asleep in the next room in any case .

I can see that the way forward is to feign a lot of interest in their plans while saying nothing/ being vague about ours and stressing how nice it will be to spend our first family summer holiday together.......

I think you need to be honest with her. If you'd given a definite answer from the start perhaps she wouldnt have taken matters into her own hands?
Although if they are staying somewhere an hour away from you, it might be quite easy to avoid them in any case.
You might find it works out better than you think, I've had holidays with MIL every year since DCs came along and we always have a good time.

Treats - you say you wouldn't be averse to asking her to babysit whilst on holiday, I think you shouldn't go down that route - you can't have it both ways.

Either you include her in the holiday and get a free babysitter or you holiday independantly and do without - trying to get the best of both worlds will ultimatly lead to her thinking she can participate in your holiday.

YANBU, or churlish. Not sure how you can do it other than being kindly blunt. I would say re book elsewhere or a different week, but you say that isn't an option. Ask yourself what is the worst that could happen?
But next year I wouldn't mention any holiday plans, but to send her an e-mail just before you jump in the car saying you are off on a spur of the moment road trip and you will see her when you get back.
Or, print this thread out and mail it to her?

I second what chix said. You need to be honest about the reason you didn't want to go away with her, your reasons are really valid and not hurtful so if she plays the victim card its not your fault.
Own your reasons and stick to it being your family holiday. Surely she should be pleased you and your sis are close.

Personally I think YABU

You reasons for not going - you mum will only want to play with DD and not look after her for you and they might want to do different things to you - seem very selfish to me

Try to think how wonderful it will be for your dd and what a special gift you'll be giving your parents (time with their grandchild). They won't be around forever and you get to spend 24/7 with your dd

Sit down with you mum, be honest, make it clear you DH and DD need some time together alone and then make some plans to spend some time with them also. Everyone's happy and no bad feeling

I might be wrong but it sounds like you've been avoiding the issue with her a bit, and now she's taken matters into her own hands. If you'd just said "we dont want to go on holiday with anyone, just the 3 of us and we are not going to change our minds on that this year, but maybe we can discuss it next year" or something pretty definitive like that, then even if she booked a cottage in the same place at the same time it would be a non-issue as you've already said you are going on holiday just the 3 of you and that's that. It would come as no surprise to her that you dont want to meet up.

Having said that I think you should do a Sunday lunch type thing and maybe one other visit of them...seems a shame not to see a bit of them. There's plenty of time for being alone as well.

It isn't selfish to want a holiday where you can please yourselves - isn't that the point of a holiday? The OP has already accomodated her mother by moving the date of her holiday to attend a family event.

I went on holiday with my MIL and DH's family, and it was surprisingly stressful, when people want to do things differently to you, and insist on their choice of day trips, etc - particularly as on some days we were pushed into going places with a high entry fee that DS1 (a baby at the time) had no interest in, because older cousins wanted to go. This was really hard, as we were on a tight budget. But my MIL wanted us to, and the holiday became about pleasing her, becuase it seemed churlish to not allow her to spend holiday time with her DGS.

So yes, OP, I think your mum IS being manipulative, becuase by saying no to them, you are going to seem like the bad party, and she is the "victim".

My advice would be to allocate a couple of specific days and say to her you would be available to meet up on those days. Make sure she knows which days they are in advance, so there is no disappointment, and they can make their own plans as well. If you feel like you are in control of the situation, you can enjoy spending time with them without feeling resentful.

I suppose your mum thinks you wanted a family holiday and doesn´t see the difference between going away with her or your sister.

But it does sound as if you are using others for your convenience.

Thanks for all your feedback everyone.

I know that it must sound a bit mean to say 'I'll go on holiday with my sister but I don't want to go with you', but it was a slightly different scenario. Going with my sister would have been like going with friends with children of a similar age and I think most people would say that is a very different thing from going with parents. We would have basically had separate holidays but in the same place so that we could help each other out. With my mother, we would all have been on the same holiday IYSWIM and there would have been 'competition' over spending time with DD which I wouldn't have had with my sister (as she has her own baby). My mum would have wanted to be involved in everything that we did with DD and every day would end up either doing what she wanted to do (which would be very different from what my DH would want), or doing our own thing but getting a lot of grief from mum - every day would end up being a negotiation.

Tbh, the 'plan' to go on holiday with my sister never got beyond the 'wouldn't it be nice if....' stage, so it's not as if it was ever a serious prospect.

I know it sounds as if I'm denying her an opportunity to spend time with her granddaughter, but I've already gone through our diaries for the whole summer and made sure there's at least one occasion in every month for us all to get together. I'm also getting the whole "I'm really going to miss DD when you go back to work - I'll never see her....." which I'm not really appreciating.

I should have been clear with her from the start, but I felt a bit compromised by having discussed a holiday with my sister and feeling that she would be hurt by my reasons for not wanting to go away with her, so I did pussyfoot around a bit. But in my defence, she refused to take the hint and kept on pushing it.

It would make sense for us to do a week with them and then a week on our own, but we really can't afford it. Money's going to be really tight once we've paid DD's nursery fees and this week away is all we can afford .

I've just had a naughty thought, actually. Maybe I could say "It's a shame your holiday clashes with ours - if you'd booked to go at a different time we could have driven down for a day/ night to spend some time with you....."

Doubt it will work but it might be worth a try.

Thanks for all your thoughts ladies. useful to get a different perspective.

missing you on the post natal thread.

Tricky one I think you need to compromise in this situation.Tell her that You really need some family time (the 3 of you) but you would love to have a day with her at her cottage and maybe also a day at your cottage.Take the oppertunity to go out for a meal with DH.

I try and let the grandparents be as involved as much as possible (taking everyones needs into consideration.)

How well do you get on with your sister? And how well does she get on with your mum?

Would she be feeling exactly the same in the same circumstances?

Any way you can get her to have a casually-dropped-into-the-conversation type chat with your mum to find out what her intentions are and manage her expectations a bit?

Hi fidelma - that I haven't been on the post natal thread for a while. It moves on so quickly that when I do pop back for a quick read, I seem to have missed out on so much......

I'm going to have a chat with her later today and will see if we can come to some sort of agreement - probably involving us spending one day with them while we're both away but making it clear that the rest of the week is our special family time. I was looking at the calendar earlier, and we'll be seeing her at some time on each of the three weekends preceding our holiday (and not seeing DH's parents at all) so it's not as if she can say she's missing out on time with DD.

I just wanted to get my head straight before I spoke to her though so that I could separate my irritation with her pushy behaviour from the actual situation that we need to deal with.

zipzap - my sister and I get on fine but she's made it clear that this situation is nothing to do with her. Mum had also suggested the holiday idea to her, but she had the handy reason that she and her DH need their holiday time to see her ILs (who are infirm and live a long way away) so was able to avoid the whole question. She shrugs it off if I bring it up, either saying "You'll hurt her feelings", or "Well, just tell her you don't want to go". Think she's on my side with this latest development, but is saying nothing. Can't blame her really, and think it's probably best.