to pull DD (13) out of school and home educate?

[BigMomma3]

Just got another email from one of her teachers this AM saying that her behaviour in class has still not improved and she is now to be put on 'report'. Which I presume means that her subject teachers will report back to the head of year about her. I have no problem with this but she has been warned that this could happen for a few weeks and has no attempt to change her behaviour - WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH HER!! I could shake her .

Bit of background - her behaviour has changed out of all recognition since she started secondary school two years ago (now in Yr8) although there was a bit of silliness where she was dared to do something and did it in Yr6, nothing serious though. We actually moved her to her current school at the start of Yr8 as in the first school, she got involved with a group of 'challenging' kids and started playing up and getting dententions so we thought moving her would be a good idea to prevent the downward spiral that she is now on anyway!! She agreed with the move and made new friends very quickly but kept falling out with them and moving on to other kids cos people keep 'annoying' her. She is now disruptive in lessons, refusing to do her work and talking back and arguing with the teachers . She says it's other kids as well but I have made it clear I don't care what the other kids do!! We have discussed it with her until we are blue in the face, trying to figure out why she is so irritable and angry all the time at home as well. She is plain nasty to her brothers and refuses to do any activities out of school apart from a performing arts academy that costs me an arm and a leg but which I thought would be good for her confidence but I have to literally force her to go!! She says that she can't control herself but she does'nt seem to care that she is letting herself down badly . I certainly do not blame the school as they are communicating with me and doing all they can.

I have been looking for excuses about why she has gone off the rails but we are a 'normal' family, there is nothing in her life to make her behave badly. I am pregnant but she was like this before that! We talk a lot and still have lots of cuddles. Her father dotes on her and she gets plenty of attention so I am coming to the conclusion that she is just a spoilt brat and am seriously thinking about home educating her for a few years (as I will not be able to go back to work because of the baby anyway) to get her away from 'outside influences' until she matures a bit more but obviously that will mean she will have less contact with the outside world and will probably lose contact with friends etc, so am I being too harsh??

I will be seeing her head of year again next week to discuss what else we can do .

Any suggestions that I can make to the school about 'managing' her would be good!!

Have you CAHMS? Or some other professional help?
Poor you - sounds stressful.

No flyingdolphin. What is CAHMS? I have been threatening to take her to GPs for some time though.

YANBU. You will find a lot of support amongst home schoolers.

You are not being 'too harsh', but I think that perhaps, in the heat of the moment, you are not thinking straight either. Understandably.

I am very pro home schooling - so it's not that.

I think that having a 'challenging' teenager at home, with a new baby, trying to homeschool and deal with DD's behaviour is less than ideal.

What is the school like?
What are the other teenagers like?
How is she doing academically? Does she need a tutor to keep up?

What is she interested in?
Is there anything you could do together? (Hobby, sport etc. Not easy while pregnant I know x).

Would she go and talk to a councellor?
I know you say she has 'no reason' to behave badly - but, with teenagers, as with all of us, you don't know what is going on in someone elses head.

There are other options to sort this out, than having a moody teenager at home all day - esp when you have a new baby!!! Let us help you to find them...

It is Children and Adolescent's Mental Health Service. I think you can get referrals through your GP, but could be talking rubbish here.
They helped a friend of mine who was having trouble with her teenage daughter.

Oh you poor thing ,and you sound as tho you're trying so hard .
No advice I,m afraid other than talk to the school ,your comment re being on report makes me wonder how closely they are communicating with you ? In that you should know exactly what it means - i think it prob.involves each class teacher checking .
What have the school done so far to help ?
If you're like me ,you'll find schools intimidating ...but if you persist in asking for help and don't be fobbed off with generalities "We'll monitor the situation " but keep asking for specifics," how will that work exactly ? ",and "if that's not succesful what's our next course of action ".
Depends on school of course how well they deal with it .
Good luck,keep strong.

Firstly, you are not alone.

Her class disruption and arguing back with teachers could be down to boredom. If she is very bright then she will be unfocused and unchallenged and uninterested in the work.

She could have a problem with concentration.

As to her behavior at home I come to the conclusion that is, I am afraid, fairly standard teenage. They are mean and horrible because they know that your love is unconditional and they also revert to the toddler trick of pushing boundaries - and she wants to find them. She'll push and push and you have to stand your ground.

She could be feeling very unsettled about the new baby that is going to take attention away from her.

As other poster said home schooling a stroppy teenager with a new baby does not sound the best solution.

CAHMS tend to have extremely long waiting lists IME and also do tend to deal with extreme cases as priority - alcohol abuse, self harm etc. Some counsellors do offer counselling at rates according to income. Counselling sounds an excellent idea as she can openly discuss her feelings etc in complete confidence. School nurse might be able to help.

what does your DD think about homeschooling?

hopefully at 13 she is old enough to have a proper conversation about it, you can explain your happy to do it but it's not an excuse to sit around doing F all etc...

wish I could do that with my DSD, she's miserable at school but can't see DH's exW handing her education over to me...

Thanks for your replies. ChippingIn - the school is no better or worse than others in area (we live in a mid size town), we choose as it's a sports academy and felt that DD could get involved in more sports as she WAS very sporty and excelled in it at primary school. She will not do any of the many activities the school offers. I have spoken to her about joining the hockey club, athletics etc, she ignores me. Her friends seem to be nice kids (although they do seem to post some pretty cringeworthy stuff on facebook - I have access to DDs pages) so probably not angels but not horrors either. DD did have friends who used to 'chase' her as in constantly come over, text her etc but they have now cooled it with her because of her bad attitude I presume. She has told me about some 'subtle' bullying of other kids that she has been involved in with other girls that has bothered me and I have, of course, given her the full scale lecture about thinking how the 'victims' would feel.

We have already met several times with the school councellor and I have told her she should speak to him about anything that's bothering her but she says nothing is .

I am prepared for it being hard work home schooling her but I am getting worried about how she will be when she gets to 15/16.

flyingdolphin thanks for that. I will talk to her tonight about seeing someone like that.

YANBU - come over to the home ed board and have a chat.

What does she think about it as an option?

She is horrified at the prospect of being stuck at home with me all day but she is obviously not that bothered or she would do something about it!

anastaisia thanks will come over shortly. Bleeding housework and shopping getting in the way of my MNing!

Gosh, she sounds exactly like me at that age!

I was a bright girl (still am actually!) who loved primary school, and then I went to secondary school and I ABSOLUTELY DETESTED IT! All of a sudden learning stopped being fun and was too rigid. I still feel like I learnt practically nothing in my 7 years apart from the last couple of months of A Levels when I crammed like hell and got an A and two Bs.

I then went on to university which I loved and have had good professional jobs since then.

I was like her tho, disruptive in class, never did homework, generally uninterested etc. I have often thought since then that home schooling might have really benefitted me and am very pro and considering it for my own children. So chat to her about it and see what she thinks.

FWIW I think the mental health people would be massively over the top.

She sounds like me at 13. I continued off the rails (but only gently - answering back, drinking now and again etc - no drugs or anything) until 15, when I was nicked for shoplifting. By 16 I was ok again, got good GCSEs, A-Levels etc...

Maybe some 13 year olds are just like that? I know when I was going through my 'difficult patch' as my mum euphemistically calls it, I really felt my parents were not really able to listen or understand my needs. I'm not sure this was because they were necessarily doing anything wrong, maybe to some extent it's inevitable. But them treating my like the 'grown up' I felt I was, rather than the child they still saw me as, might have helped.

She is also failing miserable academically. Does not put any effort in her work and does not seem to understand it either (I presume not listening). She is very bright, on the ball and imaginative. She used to be so lovely and funny. Miss the sound of her laughter .

I'm not much good for advice on teens - only have a reception aged child, but there are plenty of people with teens who home educate without it being really really hard work.

If she's truely horrified you might have a hard time - I guess you need her to take an active role in the decision or be prepared for a period of 'deschooling' where you both take some time off from working and settle into a nice routine doing fun things.

Rhinestone very interesting.

On reflection, you are all probably right, the CAHMS people could be way over the top. I had one friend who found them quite useful in giving her advice and help and coping strategies and all that, and she felt they helped her stop her dd going off the tracks and helping them as a family to sort things out. Maybe you should ask the school nurse or your GP whether there is any other sort of counseling or advice you could get? I guess not only for your dd but also for you.

I think Rhinestone is right though, school doesn't really suit everybody, and maybe homeschooling is better for some.

Anyway, good luck!

My parents would have described me as failing academically too. That was fine by me - I didn't care that I got 13% in my chemistry exam because I hated chemistry and knew I was never going to do anything that required those skills. I was right too!

Have you ever really talked to her about school? I'll re-phrase that - have you ever asked her to tell you everything she feels about school and just sat and listened? Do you know if she has any ideas about what she wanted to do with her life?

I did, but it wasn't something for which the skills were taught in school, hence why it held no interest for me. I also found the social pressure immense - to be a typical teenager etc. I fitted in but only by not being myself.

Sit her down and tell her you're going to be on 'RECEIVE' mode. She can talk to her heart's content about school, life etc and you promise not to contradict, only to ask clarifying questions.

Do you think she could be dyslexic, even mildly? It might be that, being bright she could cope with primary school and the teachers knew her well, but at Secondary it's difficult to get to know the teachers and the work can be a lot more challenging.

Avoiding work could be a solution in her eyes.

Sorry flyingdolphin, didn't mean to rubbish your advice!

Just thought BigMomma's daughter sounded like me and the mental health route would have made things ten times worse for me as I knew there was nothing wrong with me, I just hated school and institutionalised learning!

I think that possibly the fact that she was having problems at her last school, and is having similar ones now is a sign that she is the one causing them, rather than that she may have fallen in with a 'bad' crowd.

I have a daughter the same age, also yr8. She went on report a couple of months ago for playing up in class, answering back, that sort of thing. Her dad and I went in for a chat with the teacher, dd quite obviously thought we were going to give the teacher hell for being mean to her and when she saw that she wasn't going to win the battle, she did the week on report and now appears to be towing the line (she's not perfect, but she's rumbling along).

My immediate thought is that by taking her out of school and home schooling her, she will learn that by misbehaving she will get her own way, ie not have to go to school.

I don't know about other schools, but dd's school seem to hand out detentions for the slightest misdemeanour, and whilst me and her dad had absolutely no detentions at school at all, dd has had several.

I would talk to her about how she's only letting herself down in the long run, and that you're taking going on report seriously, but I honestly wouldn't be thinking about taking her out until you get to the internal exclusion stage, and even then if it carries on over any length of time.

I have 2 teens. Dd(13) is also at a tough time- I have found Year8 a real low spot- novelty of big school worn off, still beng forced to study every subject on the curriculum, just like primary. Year 9 not quite as bad because they have the carrot of choosing their GCSE options dangled in front of their disdainful little noses... After that things seem a bit better, and their racing hormones have settled down a bit too.

I hate punishments and am well known for never grounding, but this year I have done it twice with significant +ve results. Also pocket money now has to be earned by reasonable behaviour at home and at school. Other wise it drops to zero. Internet, free taxi service, hair straighteners and other essentials can also disappear.

It sounds tough but you can still love them just as much, and laugh at their jokes (if any) just as loudly. I think 13 is still very young and insecure and they need some boundaries. They need their friends too- couldn't imagine Home eding dd- she would be chewing the walls in a week. Perhaps you could say Home ed in September unless things improve. At a low point earlier this year I left the prospectus of alternative local school with hideous uniform hanging around but appreciate that is barbaric and you might not want to go so far.
Good luck!

Personally I don't go down the route of punishing for incidents in school. I leave that up to them less hassle for me, apart from anything!

Removing her mobile seems to have the greatest effect for home punishment. Dd is currently on a two month (!!!) ban from the phone for refusing to come home one night