to be a bit annoyed about a friend that thinks woman should not be allowed to have ivf on the nhs?

[CarrieDaBabi]

this friend, she is 33, and is planning on trying to start a family in a years time.

she said she doesn't agree with ivf etc and if it doesn't happen she will just accept its fate/not ment to be

then she went on to say she doesn't think that woman should be allowed to have ivf on the nhs.
i was a bit and
at her comments and attitude

she is nornally very left wing

i said, i thought women only got 1 go at ivf on the nhs and i think it should be avavlible on the nhs as its something that could cause depression pyschlogical issues

and that your on dodgey ground ruling things out as where would it stop, fat people people who drink or smoke not being able to get treatment
or people with depression not getting treatment.

to which she replied depression os an illness, i know it is, i said but not being able to have a baby can make you depressed

i felt really shocked at what she was saying

Sorry Madamdeathstare but it was not implied - I am sorry you are in a place where that is your perception but it was not implied at all.

Yes you are being unreasonable. The NHS is not a bottomless pit. There are people with cancer who can't get the new drugs to treat them on the NHS. Why should they be deprived of such treatment whilst IVF is free. Infertility is a terrible thing for those who have it, but it is not an illness or a disease.

Oh, oh, it's a tricky one!

I have ishoos with the things the NHS funds and doesn't funds - as, I'm sure, every other citizen has. Sometimes people's lives really are transformed by an NHS boob job or nose job. Other times, I reckon they should have paid for their own, or put up with their old boobs/nose. I often get terribly angry about NHS refusals to pay for cancer drugs - then find out, much later, the drug was inappropriate for those cases anyway.

I'm afraid I do put IVF treatment in the same bracket as cosmetic surgery. There must be some cases where the treatment could make a life-or-death difference to a woman's psychological health. Others, not so much. But I'm not the one who must to make these decisions, neither do I have the specialised knowledge to criticise those who do.

I had immense trouble conceiving (have no kids) but chose not to apply for IVF. I've seen the havoc it wrought on friends of mine, and their marriages. I never craved a baby, as some women do. But is craving a good enough reason to undergo intrusive & unreliable medical treatment, and ask everyone else to pay for it?

I was ready to adopt.

Err Zeb have you read the thread?

It has been said many times that there are countless things far too many to list here treated on the NHS which aren't illnesses,diseases or life threatening. If you don't want IVF funded then why shouldn't these go too.

Also I think you'll find the infertility diseases PCOS,endo are actually diseases which pregnancy helps to clear up. I had my endo burned off and key hole surgery repeatedly at the taxpayers expense, it kept coming back. Since having kids it's gone and so has most of the pain.

Depression caused by infertility could be classed as an illness too and I'll wager years of treatment for it would cost a fair bit especially if you times it by 2 as lets not forget the men involved in this too.

Kew your son is absolutely gorgeous!!!!!!

Excellent proposal & reasoning, Mme Death

I think those with this cavalier attitude which says "Oh I'd never have done IVF, I'd simply have accepted fate" didn't have fertility issues.

Easy to be so laissez-faire about it all when it's not affecting you.

OP, please do come back in 12 months time if your friend hasn't conceived and let us know what her thoughts are then...

'I still don't think that anyone has a right to biologically parent a child. I agree that can be a burning, all-consuming desire, but I don't think it's a human right. I don't think IVF should be free to all on the NHS as the country's strapped for cash enough as it is, and IVF isn't medically necessary, unlike some cancer treatments for example'

I very much agree. I feel that not being able to have children does impact on peoples lives for sure, but not to the etend that not being able to have a chemotheraphy drug you need would.

At the end of the day the priorites should be life saving and life threatening treatment.

londonlottie, actually antenatal care, diabetes care, and a lot of broken limb treatments are lifesaving - people can die due to the lack of that treatment.

MadamDeathstare, I think you have completely misunderstood MadameCastafiore. She said:

"As for the right to IVF - I am at present of the mind that people should all go through a test to make sure they are actaully going to be decent enough parents to even get pregnant naturally."

By which I think she means that it would be great if you could test people to see if they were capable of being good parents - nothing to do with their ability to need IVF to conceive.

Sorry - what sort of English was that? I meant "nothing to do with needing IVF to conceive". Sheesh!!

I'm a bit about all the talk of the NHS should only be for life saving treatment.

I had a de/tached retina about 18months ago & have has 2 minor & 2 major ops since to try & save sight in that eye. The ops carry no guarantee of success & I'm somewhere in the middle between the range of possible outcomes (some people have vitually normal sight after, others still end up blind) This was all because my body decided it wasn't "working" properly & my retina decided to fall off, just the luck of the draw, nothing I'd done to cause it. Now I have no "right" to sight, & I'm not going to die if I go blind in one eye, should treatment like this be available on the NHS or not?

For those that say yes, what then is the difference between this & someone's body not "working" properly meaning they can't conceive without IVF, when it's just the luck of the draw again?

For those that say no - then I take it you've never been to see your GP or indeed taken your children to see your GP for a non life-threatening reason?

I'm having my egg collection on Monday! I appealed against a decision by my trust who said I was too old for IVF on the NHS, and won. I only get one chance at this but I am going for it and hoping it works for me. After that I will self-fund IUI.

On a personal level I feel like, as things stand now, I am entitled to one free round on the NHS just as anyone else in my position and my area would be.

The treatment is offered and so I am taking what's offered to me. Unlike most other treatments IVF on the NHS is age dependant, and that includes being under a certain age. It's not just oldies who get turned down and it's not just oldies who seek it.

Success rates vary, for some IVF and IUI are about as successful as a 'normal' couple with no fertility issues trying on their own.

Londonlottie - apparently nobody wants their piles or their ulcers or their throat infections or... treated on the NHS either (no reponses to that either)

MIlaM - isn't he?! One of my rewards for painful and invasive IVF failing (repeatedly) and painful and intrusive adoption process was that I got a child far more beautiful than my genes could ever have scrambled together. Not only is he beautiful, he's such a lovely boy. On balance, I have been sooooo lucky.

LondonLottie - I have private healthcare for myself and my DC.

I don't bother with my local GP as, well... to be honest, I don't rate them.

Does this give me the moral highground or dig a ditch?

Possibly both... The NHS IS is simply fantastic service which should never be underestimated (not least to the wonderful people who work there who don't the thanks or recompense they truly deserve)., But, It CANNOT be taken for granted.

I think the case is 1 round of IVF on the NHS. That seems like a fair situation. Possibly not to those going through it.

I choose not to use the NHS on a day to day basis. But, I'd never disregard the service they offer (nor feel so smug as to say I'd never call 999 when / if in need)

< I think those with this cavalier attitude which says "Oh I'd never have done IVF, I'd simply have accepted fate" didn't have fertility issues >

My attitude is NOT cavalier, I think. And I wrote that I did have fertility issues! I chose not to go for IVF and would have adopted.