to think most GPs just fob you off

[littlestmummystop]

I have my own GP in a big new shiny surgery but never get to see her as she is always booked up and often goes on holiday. So I get a different one every time I go..

I am a pretty healthy person luckily, but really don't feel like I can trust most GP's opinions. They always seem to just go for the easiest diagnosis.

I can see why so many people's cancers etc. are missed by shoddy GPs.

The latest advice is for people to stop bothering GPs with minor ailments, but you have to wait so long for an appointment I can't see why anyone would go unless they have to.
Then when you finally do get there, they are usually so dismissive that only people who complain the loudest will get proper care.
I understand they have a tough job but I can't help but feel most have a sense of superiority and are left not answerable to anyone.

AIBU?

Dont get me started.

Close friend died last year from bowel cancer after a year of pestering his GP about his poo prolems and was told every time he should eat more veg and that was why he was bleeding.

To all the posters who say they have the best GP practice, you are all BVU!

I have the friendliest most helpful receptionists in the country, and extremely caring and competent GPs

However through my day job I deal regularly with lots of local GPs and practices and they do vary, certainly in the 'approachability factor'.What doesn't vary is the sheer hard work they do and the massive range of problems they have to deal with on a daily basis.

I can't imagine switching from a healthy worried well patient one minute to say dealing with a sexually abused heroin addict 2 minutes later, then an elderly couple
with dementia. And not forming some sort of opinion about who needs more attention

I dont agree mine are fab, bar one who is one of the female dr's I try not to see her as she has you in and out in minutes.

It's the receptionists I don't like.
IME they must have all been to a school to learn how to be as rude as possible.
And how come every other person stays at least 10 minutes with the doctor and I am in and out within 2 minutes!!
One of our docs was running behind so before I spoke he said "just one ailment today please, don't have time" charming!
Don't have any major problems with them, I think they do a difficult job. I do see a different one each time, but fortunately no major ailments so doesn't really matter, and if I wanted to see a specific one, I would just have to wait an extra day or so.

Greastfires - yup, I did think there was a whiff of a recent training day about that phrase!

I don't really have any complaints about our local practice, but that phrase can be quite irritating, because I've read it as 'well, I don't think there's anything wrong here, but I'm humouring you'. (Presumably if there was something wrong, they wouldn't ask me what I expected from the consultation, they'd tell me what could be done to sort it out!)

skinsl - sometimes it feels like the people who go in before you have longer than you eventually have with the GP - but they have to do paperwork, update records etc, after they've seen each patient, so the others probably aren't getting more time than you.

Or maybe you're just fitter and healthier than the others!

Our receptionists are ok - about average. One's just started and is very flaky though, and managed to lose my appointment the other day.

I do sometimes use that phrase when I'm trying to figure out where to go next - usually if its more of a "wooly" problem, tbh! Although, I am much more understanding about the issues with DC's now I have two - how sometimes you just want them checking even though its pretty clear to someone else (ie the GP) that they are basically ok. Even I sit in a flap with my own if they are poorly and not themselves!

BTW, I run 20-30 mins late most days, some people just bring lists of problems to each appt so I can sort of appreciate the "just one ailment" comment. I do sometimes think, when people bring 3 or 4 things, how do you expect me to figure it out and not bugger up when I now have 3 minutes per problem!! Hence why I just try and sort it out properly and just have to apologise for running late all the time

ps am on a day off (got exam to prepare for) today so its not mumsnetting between patients that makes me late, before someone says that! Although I will fail the exam unless I stop faffing about on here.....

I think people would like GPs better if they didn't only see them when they felt ill or worried.

I have had mixed experiences. Some GPs are great and some are positively hazardous to health and shouldn't be allowed in a "customer facing role".

GP receptionists are almost without exception dragons on a power trip.

I took my 2 and a half month old to the doctor with a cold because pretty much everything I looked at online told me that this was the Right Thing to Do. Especially in a family as rife with respiratory illness as ours. I also recall it being one of the four points of the anti-cot death campaign when I was growing up.

The majority of the GPs in my surgery are wonderful but the one I saw on that particular day all but rolled her eyes at me and was quite brusque and dismissive.

Again, how much of the request for people with minor illnesses to stay away reflects the growing pressure on the NHS? In Ireland, where I'm from, a trip to the GP costs 50 euro and no one is suggesting that people stay away .

It is amazing that the NHS is free at the point of service and I am proud to be a part of it BUT let's be realistic, it is going to prove increasingly difficult to sustain. I know in my own service we move further and further away from our own evidence base in terms of quality of care and get to the point where we actively tell people that they shouldn't worry about things that the literature would suggest might be a risk.. there are virtually no services providing the type of service the literature would suggest is effective because of resource limitations, and what's worse, we can't tell our clients this as theoretically they could sue for a better service.

It's not good enough.

And to all the GPs reading - really, really do you think that people should stay away with ailments even though you can't be sure they are accurately self-diagnosing? Or do you simply wish they would because you want more time with more needy clients and it is increasingly impossible for you to cater for them as you would like? If resources and support where in place to enable you to see, say, 8-10 patients a day, would you really mind the young mum coming with her snuffly baby, or the parent unsure if her child has chicken pox or not? How much of this 'self care'/'minor ailment' argument is to do with resources and how much is it medically based?

Have to say that I definitely don't feel fobbed off by the GPs at our local surgery. Infact I have been really pleased with them.

It was the female GP at my surgery who, shortly after we moved there, got me referred to the consultant for fertility issues, who then diagnosed Ashermans and had me in for a couple of ops meaning that I am no longer in great pain two weeks a month.

And then only this January I phoned my GP as I felt ill and was unsure if it was flu, who saw me at 7pm at night and then again two days later and straight away realised I had a nasty case of pneumonia and had me admitted to hospital for immediate treatment, saving me from becoming even more ill. I thought I just had a cold and a cad cough and saw a bit at calling him again, but he was fab.

So IME my GPs have been excellent, and that is just two examples. I could have more.

OP, I think you AIBU though I have some sympathy over the dismissiveness comment. I felt that a lot when I was younger and less confident. My Uni GPs were uniquely awful and we should frankly all have complained.

Thing is, though, it is a two way thing, and doctors can only diagnose on what you tell them. When I was younger I was diffident and probably a bit crap at stating clearly what the issue was.

I learned my lesson a few years ago when I had 5 visits before being diagnosed with pneumonia. While I do think it ought to have been picked up earlier, I also think I should have been clearer and more forceful earlier. On my last visit I had a written-out list of symptoms and problems to hand over. I got a hospital appointment for X-ray the same day. If I hadn't been so busy channelling the two weird old farmer ladies in that French & Saunders sketch (remember them? "Oh, just a broken leg, nothing to worry about!") I'd have been treated earlier and not spent 3 months utterly debilitated.

Now I'm so prepped with my/DS' symptoms, history, test results and prescriptions every time we go it's just not true. But it works.

Mrsbean....if I had it my way, I would have 20 minutes per patient and see maybe 20 a day. And I would cheerfully see anyone who fancied my opinion. Its totally due to pressure that we have to encourage people to self care - the NHS would collapse if everyone could come in for any minor concern (not to mention GPs!) (For comparison, at my surgery I see 18-9 patients in the morning, then do 3-4 phone calls, sign approx 100 scripts, then 3-4 home visits, then referrals (often no time for these until i get home), followed by another 16 patients in the afternoon. It makes my head spin, tbh....if you imagine being given anew problem (or 3) to sort out every ten minutes all day...) That said, its a great job and I love it really

Agree with greatfires. Actually I love it when people come in with something really trivial because it makes my life easy and makes a change from serious medical problems. I've got to be there anyway - it's much easier for me to be dealing with hot earlobes (still LOL at that ) than a possible cancer or severe depression.

It's other patients, not GPs, who suffer when people come in unnecessarily because it makes it difficult for other people to get appointments.

Having said that, I thought the stuff in the media this week was silly. As other posters have said, sometimes apparently trivial things are in fact very important. No one goes to their GP thinking "I'm going to waste an appointment" - they go because they are worried.

I have moved around a fair bit and had many ailment - some very serious, some not so much, so I am intimately acquainted with lots of different GP's. The vast majority of them are extremely competent, a small percentage are exceptional and a small percentage are a bit rubbish (mostly OOH's!). Unfortunately a somewhat smaller percentage are good at "customer realtions" - I have got on significantly better since I have stopped expecting my GP to be my best friend and been a bit more educated about what might be wrong with me.

If my GP is telling me I have sinusitis (no I don't actually go to the GP for this now) and I am worried that it is nose cancer then I say "I'm worried its nose cancer, why do you not think so" and I listen to their reply and decide whether it makes sense.

My mothers cancer was missed by her GP - and I still think they are fab. It was easy to miss -she was having persistent UTI's (one symptom of bladder cancer) but she is diabetic (UTI's very common) and bladder cancer very rare in women as young as she was. It wasn't until they kept returning once her sugars were under control that cancer was considered and sadly by that point it had spread. But her GP wasn't psychic and did what most GP's would have done in the circumstances.

I was amazed at the number of people who said we should have sued her GP

Not seeing the same GP twice is annoying but if I want to see one for a long term condition I wait for an apptr and see the same one - if it a one off problme it doesn't really matter who I see.

OP- If your GP practice is truly that bad then move - they aren't all bad, in fact the majority IMO aren't bad.

I was fobbed off by a very patronising GP who didn't listen properly (I had to keep repeating myself) and then accused me of imagining the condition. I insisted on a hospital referral, and...HA! I was right

I agree with those who say you should move if you're unhappy; although like many people I've had/ heard about some bad experiences, IME most GPs are not terrible.

Mine is lovely. He always gives plenty of time and explains fully. The downside is that he runs horribly late, but I prefer it that way.

I have no complaints about the service that GPs run. I have had run ins with receptionists though! I once sat for 1hr45mins waiting for my appt, not at peak time but during the middle of the afternoon. I asked (very politely) how late they were running and got fobbed off quite rudely each time. Eventually I decided that enough was enough and told the receptionist (again, perfectly nicely) was less than pleased, actually commenting "well if your time is THAT important" and that it would "muck up" their later appointments. I pointed out that yes, my time was very important to me, certainly no less important than anyone else's. I also pointed out that by leaving (by now nearly 2 whole hrs after my appt had been due!) I was enabling the person who would be due after me to be only 1 hr 50 mins late...how considerate of me.

I wrote and complained and changed surgeries fairly soon after. Not in a hissy fit but because I moved. The GP I have seen since isn't the most approachable and is very 'cold', but I don't mind because she seems very efficient and good at what she does which is what I go there for. If I really felt I had to bare my soul about something (which I prob should but am putting off) I might not feel comfortable with her as she intimidates me a little, but that is my problem not hers. I won't always see her anyway.

Most cancers are not missed by shoddy GP's.
if its only a minor ailment,why bother them in the first place?
if you are genuinely,ill, you'll see whoever is availble.
Sounds to me as if you are a "heartsink",,the GPs hearts sinks when they see your name on the list.

An interesting thread. I have mixed views about GPs as I have encountered some who are dismissive, clearly bored with the job and patronising. On the other hand I have recently seen an excellent GP who takes time and trouble to do her best but is always very booked up and so it is difficult o get an appt with her. We can request a telephone consultation and she will then offer an appt if necessary.

I think the OP is getting a lot of stick for no good reason - she is merely making a few observations. I have to say I have been amazed at the defensiveness of Macdoodle and think her comments rather brash and rude and would certainly not like to have to consult her as my GP. I was amazed at her comment that we are all "Daily Mail" readers - what an insult, and how superior she sounds. She and the other GP on here are busy telling us how busy they are and I have no doubt that that is true, but again this seems to me to be a defensive position as on-one as far as I can see is actually saying that GPs don't work extremely hard. It seems to me that as with other professions, it is the system that could be improved rather than the competence of individual professionals. As one GP on here says, she would like 20 min appts and I'm sure patients would like this too, but time is money of course and this is a major consideration inthe NHS as it is in other large organisations.

I think there should be an equal partnership between doctor and patient but the trouble is that when we consult a gp we are feeling ill and so feel vulnerable and that means (well in my case anyway)we are less assertive and more easily "fobbed off" if indeed this is what happens, as is sometimes the case.

Macdoodle says that no gp deliberately misses an early diagnosis of cancer and I'm absolutely sure that is true, but the fact remains that 10,000 people die every year because of late diagnoses of cancer. Sometimes this is because people present too late with symptoms but sometimes it is because they early warning signs are missed by gps. Again this is part of the human factor and there will always be a margin of error,but it is a rather worrying figure.

A Gp refused to take my sister's health concerns seriously and did indeed "fob her off" many times and when she was finally diagnosed with lung cancer, it was too late for treatment and she died prematurely. However this was down to the incompetence of one GP and I would not judge gps by this signle mistake, upsetting though it was for us all.

I know that when something goes wrong there is a tendency to forget all the good work that gps do and that will be in the majority of cases I'm sure.

I think we sound defensive because we are! It is actually quite wearing to hear so much negative stuff all the time, especially when you are trying hard to do a good job, and a lot of the crap stuff that happens (no appointments, being rushed, and the consequent missing of important things) is not really down to how you would like to do the job, but the pressures of government targets and simply not having enough drs to meet the huge, unending demand thats out there.

Some of us are no doubt shitty - but honestly, a lot of us (the majority, I suspect) really do want to do the job well - its just made very difficult to do that. And the consequences when we do fuck up are massive.

greatfiresoflondon,
you shouldn't defend the current status quo simply because you work hard within a flawed system.

The system is the problem here: challenge it.

It is unacceptable that the standard of medical care is so reduced because of government targets.

At some point, the 'free at the point of service' ideal of the NHS has to be challenged to avoid compromising the quality of patient care (across many services, not simply that of the GP).

Asking people to stay away with minor ailments is IMO, unfair and unreasonable, although I am fully aware of why this has come about. We have a similar problem in our service, where any available evidence suggests that therapy sessions should be three times weekly over a substantial period of time, not once every six weeks for 45 minutes! Diluting a service compromises patient safety regardless of the calibre of the professional on the frontline. It should not be defended.

Great swathes of GPs are trying to challenge it. The government aren't listening much. They would, however, listen if the electorate complained: but as the OP makes clear - the blame for the problems in the system is often firmly put at the feet of the GPs.

Hence why so many of us are fed up with the GP bashing!

GPs don't have a tough job. They earn bloody good money for what is essentially becoming a day job. They start at 8 in the morning and finish at 6ish every evening. Trying to get them to come out after this time is, generally speaking a nightmare.

The thing that gets me is that how does a person know that a minor ailment might not be an indication of something more serious. It is ridiculous.

In saying that my current GP seems to have the point. He is wonderful.