After school detention

[Lonnie]

My 12 year old has just arrived home with an after school detention.

Now putting aside any personal issues I have with detention (I dont believe they are a good way to deal with these things but stikcing a pin in that)

My daughter goes to a school that is 20 mins drive away the school bus leaves the school at 3.05pm the detention ends at 3.30. I do not feel it is acceptable that the school expects me to be able to collect her at a time where they have not checked that I am available (as it is I am not on this day because I have 2 other appointments that I am at a stretch to make as it is) the only other way my daughter would have to get home would involve her walking on her own for 20 minutes and then taking the train having to change once again not something I am comfortable with my 12 year old doing on her own.

the other issue in this and that is actually what grates me the most is the reason she has been given a detention is because she has not done her home work (it says in awful almost non comprehensable handwriting even after extention) now usually I would be very well why didnt you do that but in this particular case it is over a piece of computer homework that was saved as a pub file. We do not own publisher in our home it is a £150 piece of soft ware that we have not felt was in our means to buy. Upon telling the school this the first time they simply said they would look into it, nothing was done the 2nd time we told dd1 to get them to print it out for her so she could get it home to do she got told go to the libary, libary says that they cant print out A3 pieces, leaves dd1 again to go to her teacher whom printed out some but not all and dd1 did some of the other stuff on the school computer however you can only book 2x 15 mins sessions of this time and it was not enough for her to get it finished.

now am I unresonable in feeling

1 the detention is wrongly given and that the school is in the wrong?

2 that it is unresonable to expect me to be able to rearrange my schedule (something I cant for that Thursday) to come and collect her (They do lunch time detentions too)

and lastly 3 to out right feel that once the school bell goes at 3.00 then the school has no say in what happens to my child.

1. if it's been wrongly given, phone and disucss it politely and p rivately with the school

1. not unreasonable. AFter school detentions will not be given out lightly. Pupils and parents should get on with making arrangemtns to deal with them.

1. I disagree

I agree it's a bit off, if you have sent a note into school explaining that you don't have the software at home. Surely if it's over £100 worth of software, you can't be the only one without it?

However, detentions are not set for your convenience. The whole point is that you will sanction your child, for making life difficult for you and maybe she'll think more carefully about the risk of getting a detention, if she knows it pissed you off.

I don't think she deserves a detention in this instance though, as long as you have contacted the school about it.

After school detentions tend to be given for more serious issues than lunchtime ones, perhaps they feel strongly about this as sessions were arranged for her in IT and she still didn't complete it.

It may sound harsh, but sometimes (most of the time) detentions are the only discipline a school are allowed to use. As a teacher we have a real issue with this as most won't turn up (I work in a 'rough' school) or parents tell them they don't have to.

I think that unless it was a matter of far more seriousness I would support the school to your daughter, otherwise it could blossom into general disrespect for its policies and proceedures later on.

TBH, she would have been given an after-school detention at the schools I have worked at too in the circumstances. And no, TAs would not have been given the joy of supervising them, they had lunch breaks/rights too.

Okay, the question of whether she should have a detention is one issue, but your 2nd and 3rd points, I think YABU.

The school should have a detention clause in their school policy, which normally you agree to and sign when the child starts school. If you have signed and agreed to it, you cannot now start moaning about that because this detention is not to your convenience.

Totally agree with birdworthington, all our TAs are under the supervision of the SENCO and are there to help students with special needs. They spend their 'spare' time (usually registrations) either doing extra reading or physio with their students, the SENCO would not allow them to supervise detainees as they're spread so thinly anyway.

She's not being at all ridiculous. . . .

The ex-police/scary types of which you speak are called pastoral managers where I come from and do a very different job to a TA, just as valuable but a different focus altogether and this tends to be the most common model in our LEA.

It's still the teacher/Head of Department's call what happens to those with missing homework and our job to supervise them.

I think it might be worth negotiating with the school for your dd to do her detention on another night (perhaps a week later), as her journey home does sound a bit much.

We did something similar when ds1 was given a saturday detention on a day when we had to drive from Essex to Hull for a friend's wedding - we spoke to the school to see if it could be rescheduled, and the supervising teacher said ds1 could go in very early, as he was planning to be in early anyway, so ds1 would be out in time for us to head northwards.

You should have received 24hrs notice of a detention. See here

This would have given you time to discuss the issue of whether or not it was fair with the school and the teacher involved.

I don't understand why a school is dishing out homework that requires a specialised £150 piece of software to do?

Surely hardly anyone has this publisher software at home - what did all the other children do?

That sounds most unreasonable to me, and is what the rest of the stuff springs from.

You sound like a teacher's worst nightmare. Schools do not punish for the sake of it. Try and support them, your daughter should learn some respect for authority.

incidentally, you can get a free 60 day trial of Publisher here:

us20.trymicrosoftoffice.com/product.aspx?family=publisher&culture=en-US

You can still view and print files after it expires.

Some children don't have computers at home, so it should have been possible for the homework to be completed at school.

I am more concerned with the fact that you didn't receive 24hrs notice of the detention, as you are entitled to.

I agree with detention being an ineffective sanction, BTW.

All schools have the legal right to keep pupils for 20 mins after school without informing parents. Any longer and you should have 24 hours notice.
YABU Lunch hours are protected time for staff and they cannot be instructed to work during them.
Detentions are supposed to be inconvenient or they would not be a deterrent. I am a teacher and one of the biggest issues we have are parents who do not support the teaching staff when it comes to discipline.

theroseofwait I am dyslexic and I have a perfectly readable handwriting however I would expect a teacher to write in a matter so "I can understand it" if your handwriting is not possible to work out without much dificulty then I think she should be using a computer to print out from we have established the school has one! They also have publisher.

So I have to say that I find that attitude rather horrible yes I asked for opinions on my issue not on how "I" am able to read. I too in my profession have to do prep work I knew this before I took the education and completed my diploma and I do not whinge about it nor do I think that teachers should nor do I feel they should bring it up (not saying you winged merely saying I do not feel it is relevant to this)

A decent handwriting if you want to speak communicate to a parent yes I think that is viatal and relevant if you do not have one use a computer.

Ah, my apologies- misread the OP.

I'm a teacher too- obviously I don't teach comprehension

Still don't like detentions, though.

1. Are you just going off what your daughter has said? Perhaps there was more effort that could have been made on her part. Phone the teacher to clarify what was expected.

1. A request that the detention be rearranged for a different day after school, rather than for a lunchtime (which is a lesser sanction) would be better.

1. Schools have very few sanctions as it is, would you remove this one from them too?

4 students have not been able to finish it and have been given detention for it. My dd is a good student this is the first time she has not finished a piece of homework on time and we have communicated in writing with her teacher about it twice and dd has attempted to get it sorted herself. She does not have special educational needs I have 1 that does I am very aware of theese issues if they come up with dd1 it is not a problem she is not an A student but she scores a level B most of the time she tries her best and I feel she has in this case too.

I am not able to d/l the free version as my laptop is dying and will no longer d/l things at some point it will go completely the other computers in the house are either Mac's that I cant use (I dont get them and omg i hate the operating system) or 2 that are owned by my dh's company hence we can not d/l such things upon it without agreement.

I truthfully do not feel that we have been unresonable here. I will not permit my daughter to be put at risk and the train station she would need to wait alone in is a very small train station "I" do not like being alone in there I am certainly not allowing my 12 year old to be. The school as far as I know also has a duty to keep my child safe IMO that is of uppermost importance and they are not doing so in this case. (DD1 had already told school I was not able to come get her their reply was thats your problem)

noblegiraffe

WE have communicated twice in writing with the school about this the first time we had no acknowledgement the 2nd time she had a 1/3 of it printed out and again no communication from the school about it.

w no 2 I do not see how when we have communicated with the school and my daughter has attempted her best to get them done that she should be in a "strong detention" to me that makes no sense it is penalising her for not having a piece of software imo the school shouldnt have been using in the first place.

and re no 3 yes I would take that away from the school I do not belive that detentions are needed I grew up in Scandinavia and they where not used I think it is part of a victorian regime and I do not feel it has a part in the world we live in now. This is my personal opinion something I very much have a right to I know it is not something everyone here will agree with but it is something that imo is relevant to another discussion.

If you have read some of my other replies you will see I have backed the school up over 2 other detentions for things I felt to be very minor and not deserving of a detention however I accepted them and backed the school up by stating they had to do them.

I don't think they should be issuing homework involving expensive software packages. is this usual at school? I feel really quite unhappy about that. What about children with no computers at home/who don't have this package and so on. Surely this is a huge disadvantage for them? mine are not at school yet though so I don't know the ins and outs.

Re the journey, I suppose at secondary school they expect all teh children to be independent and ferry themselves around so it is irrelevant to them whether anyone is able to come and get them or not.

Maybe you should make her aware of the inconvenience this detention is causing and she will make more effort to get the homework done in future.
The school only has a duty to keep her safe while she is at school. It is not their responsibility to ensure that she gets home safely.

Have a look here, Lonnie- it outlines the reasons schools should consider rearranging detentions. It may be worth mentioning the guidelines to the school; whilst they are under no obligation to rearrange, the guidelines suggest they should.

I would not want to send a 12 year old home in that way either.

I think you need to separate your concern about the timing of the detention from your concern as to whether it was unjust. If you muddle the two up, school may consider you an interfering parent and write off your concerns, when I actually think you have a very good point.

But is it fair for the school to be issuing homework which requires computers and expensive software packages?

I don;t get this TBH. I am out of touch I'm sure.