to find it incredibly irritating when in certain circles school fees are talked about as if they are a necessity, not a choice?

[emkana]

Like Emma Thomson currently on the Women programme on BBC 4, or very often in the "Style" section of the Sunday Times.

And I even work in my local school, albeit voluntarily, and have been able to make very little impact on the things that really, really piss me off about it.
How is a normal working parent supposed to make a difference, however middle class they are?

Well I always intended to use and support the state sysytem, but the state system has let my Ds down, and I wasn't prepared to let that continue for any principles.

I still have one child in the state system though and am a governor, and am still supporting the state school and pushing for improvements.

So, there seems to be many generalistaions on this thread: people whose children go to private school care more so scrimp and save: people whose children go to private school have no inerst in the state system and don't care about the eductaion of the general poplulation.

Both are rather isulting to the other group and far from the reality of many peoples actual personal experience.

I have, sadly and reluctantly, chosen to use the private sector but that does not mean I am oblivious to the unfairness in this, or that despite putting my child first that I have no ineterst in or care for wider education issues. In fat I have more,as I can see where it's letting children down.

I'm not prepared to allow my child to continue to be let down when it's within my power to do somehting about it, but I'm also prepared to still fight and be vocal for other children still in the sysytem whose parents do not have the luxury of the choice I've had.

I do agree with this:

"So it is perfectly possible to privately educate as a pragmatic personal choice, without claiming moral superiority about it, and also lobbying for decent education for all."

Which encapsulates my position personally. Although I do get cross when people suggest I should feel guilty for being pragmatic and having the means to do something about it.

Surely EVERYONE agrees that they don't want their children to go to a crap school. That is why people choose to pay for an education. And that is the crux of it.

EVERYONE should be entitled to a decent education, not only those who can pay (ranging from those 'scrimping and saving' to the landed gentry for whom school fees are a mere drop in the ocean). The advantage that is gained by a private education is huge (otherwise people wouldn't use it). They have got the examination results down to a tee and can lift the grades of distinctly average children up to the highest grades, and thus the best university places and so on and so forth. That is why people pay, but I cannot accept that it makes it right or fair in this day and age to have such a two tier education system.

Paying for an education doesn't actually make anyone more intelligent, it just buys better results. The already advantaged become even more advantaged.

Many of the children currently residing in some crap state schools would also receive those top results and university places were their parents able to pay. Obviously there are many children in non crap state schools who also attain the highest grades etc (esp those in state grammar schools, who should be doing so because of their selection at 11).

I can really understand why one would choose to educate privately but I really, really cannot understand how anyone cannot see how wrong the whole system is.

"Not every parent in private school is totally detached and living in an elitist bubble, not every state school parent is above reproach. I will say this again (doubtless yet again to cries of tokenism) but several of my daughter's friends are children of single mums. They are all only children, just to say that it is just about possible on a standard Devon wage (ie low) to afford fees at my children's school as long as you're not trying to do it for several children. I know of several children at their school who live in council houses. "

Really duchesse? What are the fees like then?

Just caught up with this thread - some great posts, Smiley.

Now a smidge over £9300 a year Missus. Which is still eye-watering for most (yes, most) parents at the school.

It may be eye-watering, but to even have the choice to spend that much money on something that isn't a necessity is out of reach of the vast majority of people in this country. Most families have to be careful with money so they can pay their bills.

Missus, whom do you blame for that?

I am utterly intrigued about the single people on a standard Devon wage (ie. low) who can afford to send a child to private school at £9,300 pa. Really really really intrigued.

Surely they would be receiving money from the fathers of the children? Or they might not be on the standard Devon wage???

I can't think of any other way it would work.

I know I couldn't have afforded it as a single parent on an above average income when I was working full time. I don't live in Devon, but even so....

maybe the ones with bursaries.

Blame for what Rollmops?

Average income for women working full time is about £22k btw.

Where on Earth do you get such low figure? I am genuinely interested?

£22k would cover 2 children in private education after tax, so obviously they are managing on one salary and the other covers the fee's, not too hard to imagine.

Office for National Statistics Rollmops - sorry that was the median figure rather than average (obviously medians are more useful). Median male earnings is £27.6k. 10% of full time employees earn over £50k.

mamatomany - think she was talking about single mums on an average wage.

Median household income for Devon: ?The South Hams tops the mean and median income ranges, with the median income at £27,976 (just pipping Teignbridge at £27,671).

?And the lowest is Torridge, which has a median household income of £24,958.?

It is fees, not fee's.

My question was in response to the post from duchesse saying that there were single people earning a standard Devon wage who were sending their child to private school.

Bursaries at my local famous private school are available to families earning less than £40,000. So any family earning between £40,000 and, say, £100,000 who has an average mortgage or rent to pay around here, and/or more than one child, does not have a choice to send their child to private school. No amount of buying second hand clothes or only holidaying on the cheap is going to make up the difference!

I cannot believe that there are any single parents on average wages sending their children to private schools UNLESS

(i) Those private schools are of the GDST variety where scholarships etc are offered OR

(ii) The said single parents have massive amounts of family money

I frankly don't believe that a single person earning £22k a year can pay a set of school fees.

I think it is a myth calculated to make impoverished parents wonder if only they were vigilant in turning lights off every night ...

My state school (where most of you would never consider sending your kids though it's the best place I've ever worked) children are starting a project about the 72 million children globally who don't have access to ANY education. Now that certainly gives me some perspective.

I agree op, you need to be earning a certain amount before you can even consider sending off to private school. Does annoy me too as if they are talking about their food shopping bill or something.

Sorry to state the bleeding obvious here- but if your child is in private school then paying school fees IS a necessity like paying the mortgage etc?
Its not a necessity for everyone of course because not everyones child goes to private school scratches head its all a bit of a no brainer really!

A necessity is buying food, paying rent, paying council tax etc - because you have to, whether you like it or not.

Paying bills on luxuries is not a necessity, because you can choose not to buy luxury items.

Dear God redredwine. There are 324 posts on this thread. Do you honestly think everyone else on it has missed the point and are posting into a void? You are not stating the bleeding obvious. Quite the contrary.

Red that's as useful as saying paying for my Jimmy Choos is a necessity as they have handed me them in a bag and I am obliged to give them money.