about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Jellyheadjulia,

the fact that every time you make a staff travel booking you tck a box to state that you understand the following statement is merely one indicator that staff travel is a benefit not a contractual right;

"Staff travel is a non-contractual and discretionary benefit granted at the sole discretion of BA and as such can be withdrawn or varied at the sole discretion of the Company at any time.

I agree to these terms and conditions"

For anyone outside of BA I have copied and pasted this directly from the homepage of BA staff travel.

There is also the evidence that BA can and do change staff travel at will. This is something I believe CSDs benefitted from a few years ago when they were granted an improved annual concession ticket. (At the time this meant that CSDs received a better on load priority than first officers.) I did not hear any complaints about BA changing staff travel when it served to benefit some of the very people who will now suffer from it's change for the worse for them.

The rest of BA is watching with baited breathe as Unite attempts to prove staff travel is contractual. If it is, EVERYONE in the company could be taxed on it as the taxman will consider it to be part of the remuneration package. As it is at the moment it is considered to be an ad hoc benefit which we pay the airport tax part of and it is argued that due to the nature of the ticket, and the fact that it there are many seats which would go empty if the staff passenger was not on them, it is not considered taxable by the government.

If Unite win this case in the courts it will open a whole new can of worms - if it is proven that something is part of a remuneration package the government is entitiled to backdate it for 7 years. Who wants to be responsible for the entirity of the BA workforce having to pay 7 years backdated tax for something many of them only use once or twice a year because a bunch of cabin crew who have chosen to live abroad want to stamp their feet over it?

Every single member of the cabin crew workforce was warned and warned again that BA would take away staff travel if they went on strike. It was quite specific in checking it's legal position. I do believe the saying that applies best to the current situation is there's no point crying over spilt milk.

I should just add a couple more things - I made a long post yesterday about some of the recent postings, but the internet ate it. Sorry. But if I were OSTG I would stop taking pops at pilots (and their backgrounds too.) I would never condescend to assume that the person working with me on the other side of the door was less well educated than I, as I know we have many very well educated cabin crew, with PhDs and more. I would be grateful if you could stop making assumptions about pilots please. It is one of many areas where I find the divide between cabin crew and flight crew (which you reckon is wider than the flight deck door) is encouraged by some crew with their own agenda. FWIW I trained at Oxford with a former binman, snooker hall manager and children's nurse. There was also a school teacher, a sales rep, a war refugee and a couple of graduates on my course. I would say 2 of the 18 of us could be described as 'priviliged.'

On a final note - for anyone striking today - enjoy your party. I HAD thought this was a serious situation for all concerned, but apparently you have a mariachi band and face painting planned for today. I would give the open top party bus planned for Monday a miss though - the weather forecast looks terrible.

Very good post Pandora69, a lot of pilots have financially struggled to get where they are. This financial struggle will carry on for many years to come, as they repay the cost of training. This seemed wasted on OSTG and others when I tried to explain it to them.

If staff travel is lost in the courts, and I am not sure it will be, the backlash on the cabin crew will be even worse than the strike.
It has always been accepted at the time of travel as a discretionary benefit-
It has been removed in the past without affecting the T&Cs of employees involved
It has been removed from strikers in the past (which has been unsuccessfully challenged)
Most importantly the benefits of discretionary benefits, and their removal has been challenged previously by other companies, and again case law sits in favour of BA.

British Airways always maintained that they would do this if CC went on strike. The time for UNITE to seek legal advice on this would have been then, so that they would now be in a position to give you clear advice as to whether BA can remove staff travel.

I was at T5 this morning, the airport has a really positive atmosphere to it, and plenty of people were getting away.
There were a lot of cabin crew coming into work, and very supportive members of staff their to greet them.

This strike does not have any widespread public support - why on Earth would it when so many people in the economy are struggling?

The fact remains that BA is an important employer with good pay and benefits packages. BA is an important business and I hope it remains an important business.
Customers are key.

BA has not made compulsory redundancies as yet....

If you were a Cabin Crew employee that you considered fully your decision to strike so it will be a rich to claim sour grapes now if your travel benefits are cut - tough - you must be able to realise that every action has a consequence.

good post pandora. watching with interest how things are going.

It is very difficult for the public to form an opinion on this strike as we have to rely on detail in the media which is often not evenhanded. I do understand cabin crew frustration if they were not consulted properly over the proposals. Over the past few years BA has experienced a rocky ride. I feel that management has now reached a stage when if certain reorganisation and economies are not implemented, BA will be unable to operate successfuly in an increasingly competitive market. Management must surely be thinking that the time has come for BA to 'fly or die'.

A tiny contribution to put this thread back in my convos:

the ds's flew to England on British Airways today, there were lots of cheap flights available at the last minute, so we have benefitted from this miserable situation...its an ill wind etc.
We are not put off travelling British Airways as you can see.

*I am pleased that you are still willing to give BA a go, I think most of the staff are proud to be a part of BA-which is what may well be what contributes to the survival of the airline.

from where i am sitting, i dont understand why they agrieved cabin crew, with their awful conditons, dont find employment elsewhere..

its because, and lets face it everyone in the industry knows this - BA cabin crew have been milking BA for years, they've had by far the best t's and c's, pay, perks and pensions over any other UK airline.

This is a business that will NOT survive without radical overhaul. Yet the unions and a minority of cabin crew seem hellbent on bringing it to its knees - i just dont get it.

oh yes, and if BA does go under due to the reckless action of unite etc.. what will happen to all those poor BA cabin crew's ..... oh yes, guess what, we, the tax payer, will foot the bill.

pensions, doh. pensions... so should read...

oh yes, and if BA does go under due to the reckless action of unite etc.. what will happen to all those poor BA cabin crew's pensions ..... oh yes, guess what, we, the tax payer, will foot the bill.

Herhonesty - you haven't got a clue what you're talking about but I can't be fagged to enlighten you.

Cobblers she has got a point, about the pensions, job seekers allowances, all of it will fall to the tax payer.

Why would the taxpayer pick up a private pension liability?

Because we have a tax payer fund for doing just that. In 2003 the Government passed legislation guaranteeing private pensions if the company went bust.

Fair enough. I didn't know that.

But this is about maintaining a reasonable balance of power between workers and management - not about making BA bust.

The Guardian had a fair appraisal of the situation today.

Cabin crew do not have all the perks stated in most of the tabloids.

Cobblers Have you decided that because the Guardian said so? Or because you know from another source.
There are cabin crew in the Daily Wail (I had a look on line) who say they do get all the perks

DH said that it isn't uncommon for pilots at Heathrow to be asked to slow the plane down so the CC can trigger an over time payment. According to him this sort of request tends to make the pilot speed up.
£100 for touching down 10 minutes late-which other job gets you that?

Also this whole oh we can't provide a good service if we are 1 crew member down, would also sound a bit more plausible if it was not a trouble at all for an extra £200 for a CSD and £100 for a cabin crew member for each member of the team they are short on a flight.

What I mean is that what makes you decide the gUARDIAN must be right, over the Times and Telegraph who also talk about the perks and are hardly tabloids?

In passing, I thought I would note that if JellyheadJulia loses her staff travel perk, presumably her DH's staff travel perk will keep them in family holidays for the foreseeable future. If that is indeed the case, she is in a different risk position to the likes of OSTG . Evn though she is equally bullish about the strike, she actually seems to have less to lose.

Catinthehat2- The letter that went out stated that they would lose their travel concessions AND they would not be allowed to benefit from the travel concessions of others, so she would still lose her concessions.

The Telegraph has been outrageous in its coverage of the cabin crew's situation. Sorry for lumping them under the tabloid banner. Not seen the Times but it's becoming more like a tabloid every day.

Slightly off topic but it's so frustrating seeing the cabin crew portrayed as spoilt children.

As I've said before, it's a f*ing hard job and not a race to the bottom for wages and conditions.

You see you say that about the Telegraph, but I might say the same about Sky News and the Guardian- which is why as jellyheadjulia said it's important to read around an issue.

Some cabin crew are behaving like children, as are some of the union activists. This is a matter of opinion-and one I know you will disagree with.

Just a quick hello to my fellow cc on this thread. It was another impressive day today at Bedfont and the picket lines were proper noisy! Keep up the good fight, we shall prevail!

Willie Willie Willie Out Out Out!!!!

(Silver - OK, thanks for that.)

Onestonetogo good to see you are all having a lovely time and taking it all so seriously.

Yes, we are taking it very seriously and having a lovely time too; taking it seriously because the reasons behind the strike are serious; having "a lovely time" as you say, because it's good to be with like-minded colleagues during these troubled times. And it's good to make our voices (and drums, and cymbals, and whistles!) heard.
Besides, what did you expect from people, such as cabin crew, who are naturally outgoing, extrovert, creative, smart, fun, full of life and right now very angry? Did you want our protests to be all demure?

no harm to you Onestop but though BA always claimed to be the 'Worlds favourite airline' don't know if that equates to the best. If you feel aggrieved, I think you have every right to strike and protest (even at the discomfort of the paying public) but be aware, in my (and friends)experience and opinion you fall way short of the mark. Complacency and arrogance seems to be perceived by many of your customers and thats from folk used to flying business and first class, and economy(hate to think of how lowly economy passengers find it).