about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Perhaps when they start calling WW names, they should just be grateful they don't work for Virgin, and end up in tv shows like THIS

Daily wail

For a short summary of the dispute, in case someone wanted facts, read this.

I find this line quite interesting "These include a single on-board management grade, no seniority, promotion on merit, and pay set at market rate plus 10%."

Now, who would get a promotion in any other company, if not on merits??!

sudoku, promotion to more senior roles withing BA are both on seniority and merits. For example, BA may announce they're now promoting main crew to pursers; they will also announce that all main crew who joined the company between x day and x day are eligible for it. They have to apply, then go through a selection process both on flights and on the ground. Not everyone get promoted. Then it may be years before the next "batch" of promotions is announced. If your date of joining doesn't fall between the dates announced by BA then you cannot apply for promotion.

Sometimes, like everywhere else, it helps to be at the right place at the right time:crew based at Gatwick get promoted much more quickly (the more senior crew transfer to Heathrow), so it's possible for someone with 10 years seniority to become CSD at Gatwick, while a main crew with 15 years seniority at Heathrow is still main crew (not purser or CSD). So, despite Gatwick earning on average less than Heathrow, in truth they have much better opportunities, and can transfer to Heathrow once they got promoted.

I had a good time at Gatwick, but couldn't take the long drive home after a night flight anymore(it would have been only a matter of time before I would've fallen asleep on the wheel and killed myself or someone else)

ostg, thank you for the clarification...

However, I still don't get why CC from the same company, but different base (ie. Gatwick), should get such different terms of employment...?!

Is that the reason Gatwick CC are not on strike (despite being paid less than LHR CC), ...but they still have a higher chance of getting a promotion?

DH going on strike week after next, he just heard today. not BA but another transport company. it's all going to kick off at Easter.Lovely.

well, in that case, if they only use seniority to narrow down who is eligible for promotion, and then judge on merit, wouldn't 100% promotion on merit be better? Because it would mean you were ALL eligible and not just those who joined the company between x and x?

I have to say, I have never had too much sympathy for BA cc. I always found them rather superior and the final straw was when I was pregnant and the cc refused to help me lift my hand luggage into the overhead locker because it was "against H&S". He also told me, very smugly, "You shouldn't pack more than you can carry". I was pregnant and had had 2 miscarriages so I wasn't really into lifting suitcases above my head. After that, I flew Easy Jet all the time, and they always helped me with my bag.

Seeing that tagline on the pprune site is quite disturbing as well..."Cabin Crew The other half of the airborne team who put up with the self-loading freight."

ha! BA were planning to cut CC pay by 40%!! would I be sitting back and taking that crap from my employer??? I think not - 'see you at the picket line' springs to mind here

Gosh starkadder that is so truly awful.

Yes and ostg might be able to explain further - why Unite agree with the arrangements for the Gatwick CC but not Heathrow CC?

Yes, it was horrible. I said I couldn't lift it, and he said he wouldn't, and I started crying (against my will, which was AWFUL). And then another passenger lifted it up for me (it was a small suitcase, really NOT heavy). And the cc gave me horrible dirty looks all the way to London.

Easy Jet always helped - I never had to ask - and they once carried my bag for me all the way down the steps to the bus (you know when you have to take the bus to the terminal?).

But I recently made a new friend who is ex BA cc and she is very nice indeed and I am sure was also very helpful, so...my personal experience was really only one unfortunate experience...

snazzyapple according to OSTG it's not her responsibility if Gatwick want to work to those conditions, but she doesn't.

This thread has deteriorated into an us and them. CC supporting the strike versus supposedly a large number of pilots wives arguing against them. I would estimate may be 3 or 4 pilots wives posting and rather more outside of this 'group' including a handful of other/former BA staff, but mainly interested/concerned other people. So why arguing cc do we have the constant derogatory references/bitchiness to those few pilots wives who are presenting very appropriate factual info?? No I am not a pilots wife, but do support much of what some of these posters have said.

Why is there reference to a 50% (thought it was 40% a few pages ago!!) pay cut when your wages are not being altered?? Allowances are being changed and for some people, if they 'take their sandwiches from home' to eat and don't buy anything, end up with actual cash, they may be worse of. However there are big tax implications being looked at already for this situation by HMRC as its verging on Fraud. Claiming expenses that actually don't exist.

So what if this is your situation or you have to spend for this or you do that to make you a better person - do you think your customers think oh this poor person who has xyz happenning i'll just pay more for my ticket so they have what they need- I don't think so. Your personal situation is just that not the responsibility of anyone else. If you can't do what you need/want in your job change jobs work more hours- thats what the rest of us have to do. It is not your employers responsibility to deal with YOUR life choices. So all these comments about your lives and what you have to put up with and need I personally don't care about in this 'discussion' as it is completely irrelevent.

I am all for the strike action -good on the CC for standing their ground.

So we should all just be defeatist then and say 'oh well we'll just have to work more hours and just accept things the way they are'. I think not!

If we kept with that mentality over the years, our children would be working down the pits and doing slave labour for peanuts in factories up and down the country.

Thank goodness for reform and industrial action over the years or we'd still be stuck in the stone age!

Stand up and fight BA CC, stand your ground, you know you have to. It doesn't do to just sit back and take it from your employer. That's what workers rights are there for.

Silver1.... for your info I am not counselling whilst I am sick... I think I do realise the implications if I did...

I'm afraid this is all getting far too bitchy on here....I really can't believe some of the comments being passed around. I am quite sure if this were face to face, these discussions would not even take place.

We all have different opinions, and I don't expect you to agrre with mine. It appears to me that the only people who do agree are cabin crew or ex crew who understand the full terms and conditions that BA are trying to impose. I would not slate the pilots during their disputes with the company, and they have had a few.....because I did not understand the facts, and quite frankly it was really none of my business.

Thanks for all your comments whether they were in favour or not....

I am not a pilot's wife, or CC...; I just find this very interesting..!

And having followed this thread from the beginning, I do not think strike-action is appropriate, or justified!

Catper33 That is a very good post.

Maddyjensen why then would you expect pilots to support you in this? Especially when you have said they deserve to earn less than senior cabin crew?

Everyone talks about being shafted by BA. Willie Walsh is the LOWEST paid CEO of a FTSE 100 company. I don't see him going on strike for it.

Silver1 if that is true (WW's pay) - genius! That is a very good point...

I think this all boils down to a general hatred towards WW...?

Silver1.. please check my posts and tell me where i have said "they deserve to earn less than a senior cabin crew"...you won't find it because that is not what I said...

You obviously have a bug bear about crew, as all you seem to do is post negative and insulting remarks about them.

Look around Silver1 and open your eyes...we are not the only ones going on strike....

And with regard to WW going on strike...I wish he would as the airline would run far better without him.....and that was quoted by many of the piolts during the open skies debate........

You have obviously taken a instant dislike to me..........I'm actually a very sociable person who gets on with most people...I know it must be stressful for you at home, but please don't take your frustrations out on here....

Good Evening, I have been following this thread with interest over the last two days. I, too, am married to a BA pilot but also am employed as a CSD (senior crew member) for BA. I completely understand the fear, negativity and lack of comprehension on the part of most of the posts. I have chosen to strike. I have not taken the decision to go on strike lightly. Similar to many of the families here, my household income is dependent entirely on BOTH of our incomes. If British Airways no longer exists, neither do either of our jobs. Many forum users would seem to imply or maybe that is what I have wrongly inferred, that we as a community, have gone in to the strike for purely empty, ill considered reasons. I, like many of you, have a huge amount to lose. Honestly, my personal reasons for choosing to strike, whether it be legal or not, are fairly complex. It is not a decision I undertook with any degree of levity. I will try to outline them here. I am saddened by the level of bullying both my colleagues and I have been subjected to over the last 3 years. I go to work to do my absolute best. This has been severely compromised by the ill-considered cut backs that have been carried out over the last 3 years. I firmly believe that British Airways customers pay for a premium service which we are no longer able to deliver as a result of the arrogant cost cutting measures that are in place. Cuts that are not only from the head count but also from the actual, tangible product. Despite all our feedback and protests, our leadership team seem not to care that our customers are receiving an inferior product
I strongly agree that every single staff group within a company needs to concede certain working practices or customs during a recession. I do not believe that Cabin Crew believe they should be immune. They wish, only that it could have been agreed openly and fairly, without imposition.
Much has been published about our "over-inflated" salaries. I carry out recruitment and selection for new cabin crew at British Airways. The reason I believe that currently we are paid more than our counterparts in the UK at Virgin etc ALTHOUGH not more than the other "flag carriers" i.e. Lufthansa, Air France is because generally for every 100 applications online we receive, only 5/10 will get accepted for interview. Of the 20 who make the short list for interview, only 1 or 2 pass each day. I am confident that many of you reading this will say that we clearly have the wrong selection criteria. I honestly believe that we try to select the best and that is what I generally find I work alongside.
I do also believe in supporting the collective, in other words, my union. Not blindly, or indeed in every case - I don't strive to be a lemming. During my career within British Airways I have had a couple of issues where I tried to stand up for what is fair. The union supported me. To give an example, close to all of our hearts; I received my promotion to CSD whilst on maternity. I was told by the company to choose my maternity leave and pay (i.e. time at home with my son) or my promotion as they didn't know if there would be another opportunity. This was proven to be lie. A promotion course was knowingly planned approximately 3 months later. I only received my mat. leave and pay when BASSA fought for it on my behalf.
Throughout my dispute with the company over this matter, I was intimidated and made to feel I had no rights. The company were not honest and my union were. I may have been very naive, but up until then I had believed BA operated in a true and just manner. Since then I have sadly come to realise that is not the case.
All employee groups have the right to stand up for their futures and those of their children. My husband was asked to vote on industrial action two years ago over the potential erosion to his terms and conditions by BA's proposed introduction of the subsidiary "Open Skies" Sadly, it was ruled unlawful by the high courts. I am sure our dispute in no different and the financial standing of the company not vastly altered.
To finish, I, like many of my colleagues love our jobs. Careers, we have chosen to stay in for many years. We are not striking to bring down a company we are proud to work for, we want to continue delivering a great service to our customers for many years, despite what many would believe.

Last year figures have revealed that on average there are 10 jobseekers for every vacancy advertised in the UK. In one area of the south-east, 60 workers are available for each job.

BA is considered a good employer - why else would it receive 5000 hits on the vacancy section of its' website every single day.

Why else does it get inundated with applications every time it puts up a vacancy?

I have been less than complimentary at times through out this discussion as I have felt annoyed at the attitude of some of the CC on here.

I am pleased that you have flexible working afforded to you.

However I do detest the anti-female posts that you and OSTG make - Maddy did you really have to add the patronising comment "I know it must be stressful for you at home" to silver. Would you have liked it if another poster said this to you?

Starkadder

I think you were just unlucky with the crew!! I go out of my way to help mum's and dad's on board...and expectant mum's....

We do have a policy that we are not supposed to lift ANY bags into overhead lockers....however the majority of us use our judgement and if its not heavy we would always try and assist. I did a flight a few months ago where a crew member had to move some bags as the locker would not close..as he took a bag out, it was so heavy, it bent his wrist and he tore his ligaments in his hand...we had to offload him as he was in agony....I contacted him at a later date, he had to have surgery and I believe he is still off work. So as you can see, although we would like to help and it may appear that we are being rude, the policy is there as a safety net . But the remark's made to yourself, I agree were out of order, and he could have dealt with the situation in a completely different manner.

We are not all the same, some crew who do not have families are not always so accomodating, but that is because they are not parents and don't know how to deal with certain situations.

there you go again Maddy don't assume that you need to have children to help a pregnant women - please stop making assumptions!!!!!!!!

Pinkfizzle...

I was not being patronising..it was a genuine comment... I know it must be, as it is in my household... and the main reason being is that my husband decided to go into work and I don't agree with him... I have never been so stressed as I have been over the last few weeks, and whether this has contributed to my miscarriage I will never know. I apologise if it sounded patronising, it was not intended to be!

ok I know my exclamations were over the top - but you can not have it both ways can you?

Can you really say how fantastic CC are - and then explain poor service away by saying some crew have not had families, so are not always so accomodating, but that is because they are not parents and don't know how to deal with certain situations??

Real translation - did you mean to say that some are simply not good at their job then???

Ok I am going to TRY leave this thread before I start to stereotype BA CC as being an obtuse and difficult bunch, who are inclined to crass generalisations.