To put my food down over how much my partner drinks while we're TTC?

[AnnieDelores]

Help I've just had a massive fight with my other half over drinking.

We have been undergoing fertility analysis. It turns out I'm fine and ovulating normally but he has very low normal sperm forms (just 3%) an "ok" sperm count and "ok" motility.

We've been TTC since July. He used to be a heavy drinker but has now cut down to a beer plus half a bottle of wine 2 or 3 nights per week.

My big problem is....and the reason for the fight.....he is going to a gig tomorrow night and the boys will be drinking from 7pm till arouind midnight. This will probably consist of at least 8 pints each. I've told him I don't think he should go unless he has the guts to tell them he can't drink that much because it will mess up his sperm quality....but you know what men are like.

What do you suggest I do? I'm really stressed out that he will go out and drink 6 or 7 pints because he's out with his old drinking buddies.....and his drinking history isn't good. He says he'll "just have a few beers" and that I need to trust him to do that because he really wants a baby too.

He hardly goes out socialising at all because he was made redubdant a year ago and is struggling to get his own consultancy business off the ground. That's why I feel its important he gets out every now and then because otherwise he'll be miserable.

But...........going out with boys means booze....6,7,8,9, pints of it.....and that will mess up his sperm count and quality and may already be the reason we can't conceive.

Any advice?

Annie

Well I am extremely lucky to have a dd with dh but desperately want another dc but its just not happening. Concieving dd was very fast, said i wanted a baby at the beginning of June 2006 and at the end of the month was lucky enough to be pg.

I too was obsessed with having sex every night or most nights, but one day after perstering dh he just snapped and told me what a put off it was and that I was going the wrong way about things. So now I am trying to be more relaxed about it all, you both have a life outside trying TTC and could cause problems in the relationshiop if you put too much pressure onto him. Sperm is made all the time so one night of drinking should not affect it.

Let him have his night out, but mabey he can try to limit the amount he drinks that night.

Can understand your reaction, as TTC isn't actually any fun at all after a while, but your poor DH - he's lost his job, he's struggling to set up his own business, he's been told he has substandard sperm (doesn't matter what the technical diagnosis is; men tend to take it personally) and because you're 'fine', he's the one who's failing to provide you with the baby you want. Do you honestly expect him to admit his spermular inadequacies to his mates? The man just wants a night off!

TTC can drive the most reasonable women mad, but getting into a spiral of mutual resentment and frustration so you never ever want to have sex again is much more likely to sabotage your long-term chances than the occasional big night out. Let him go out.

Fingers crossed it happens soon for you - I know how miserable TTC is, when it seems so easy for everyone else.

YABU, let him go out with his friends, ican't think of many menwho'd honestly fess up to that one as being a reason they couldn't drink tbh!

Fwiw after i had a mc I did a couple of months of opks, having sex at the "right" time, not drinking, taking vits etc etc. Nothing happened was driving myself mad, sacked it all off and concieved next cycle both of us drunk as newts.

I'm sorry for what you're going through ttc is horrible but a night out with the lads might help him relax and possibly do some good in the long term.

x-posted from other thread.

He is an adult and is allowed to do whatever he likes with his body.

If he tells you he wants a baby as well and will not drink too much you have two choices. Either believe him or not. If you don't believe him and can't treat him as an adult then maybe he isn't the best choice to have a baby with.

If my DH was under the impression he could "put his foot down" over my actions he would be in for a very nasty shock indeed.

There is nothing more likely to kill the mood for sex than pressure to "produce".

Chill out, 8mths isn't that long. My first one took 2 years and the second took 8mths.

I think most blokes would rather chop their willy off with a rusty axe than tell their mates they're firing blanks.

I'm surprised that most think the OP IBU. Presumably she too isn't drinking at the moment and is trying to live as healthily as possible. As soon as she's pregnant her DP can go back to drinking, his job will be finished, while she'll have another 9 months of no alcohol, no liver, no rollercoasters, no hugging sheep...

Doesn't seem unreasonable at all to expect him to do his bit now.

"As soon as she's pregnant her DP can go back to drinking, his job will be finished"

Treating men like mobile sperm banks is, funnily enough, something of a stumbling block when it comes to regular, enthusiastic sex...

l39 "his job will be finished"

You what? This is the sort of thing I notice a lot on Mumsnet. Both the treating men as idiots and "letting and allowing" them to do things and the simultaneous cosseting them as "little boys" who can't help themselves.

The DH in the OP has said that he will "just have a few beers and that I need to trust him to do that because he really wants a baby too." If you can't take a very clear statement like that at face value then you really really shouldn't have a baby with the person.

I just don't understand are these grown men who are able to act as independent adults or are they little boys who need to be answerable to their mothers (i.e. wives)?

Should have put 'the state of his sperm will no longer have any impact on the pregnancy'. I do actually have a husband of 18 yrs and a very good father, he doesn't think I'm only after him for his sperm

OP - how would you feel if your DP forbade you from meeting some friends because you're TTC and might have a few glasses of wine?

I don't think you're being unreasonable if he wants the baby as much as you do. If he's happy for you to go through 9 months of preg followed by birth and possibly bf, then giving up massive sessions for a finite period of time should not be a huge deal. Would he be happy for you to get blind stinking drunk when pregnant? Would people be supportive if you posted here to say he wanted you to stick to moderate drinking when preg, and why couldn't you just get smashed with the girls? I think it unlikely. The baby is both of yours, and it seems you both need to drop booze at various points, to have a healthy sprog. BUT... you can't force people to do things and have a healthy relationship. If you have sat down and talked about this and he still thinks being a selfish twonk is his right, I think you need to have a long hard think about a few more issues than just this. Because being stuck at home with a screaming baby while DH goes out for an allnighter and comes in bladdered doesn't sound a recipe for bliss, to me. And if he really can't or won't stop for such a good reason, when there's evidence it's a problem and he wants a baby as much as you do, then his drinking is squarely in the realms of the problematic, IMO.

Pigletmania at least 2 and possibly 3 of Jools Oliver's babies were conceived with the help of drugs. Not by chilling out. She also had to have an operation to clear her fallopian tubes. Jamie's sperm count was normal. It was Jools, not Jamie, wose fertility was reduced. And suggesting ICSI as an option...! Do you have any idea of the healthy risks or sheer unpleasantness of IVF for the mother, or suspected risks to the baby of ICSI? Drugs that make you feel appalling, needles in the arse every day, invasive procedures to get the egg out? Yet that is a reasonable alternative, just so her DH can get smashed?

I haven't read all the tread (sorry) but you are being very controlling. It's just one night. Give him a break.

Confuzled chill out, yes i know about IVF as my neices and nephews were concieved by it thank you and my brother and his wife went through a very long and lengthy process. The op has not been trying very long so it was just a suggestion, its still early days and i expect that a doctor will probably say the same thing. I am not a fertility expert. Its that very attitude confuzled that puts men off and makes women totally like Motherzillas. Drinking its just one night out fgs. Its this very attitude that can cause problems in a relationship sorry but just my opinion.

"he baby is both of yours, and it seems you both need to drop booze at various points, to have a healthy sprog. BUT... you can't force people to do things and have a healthy relationship. If you have sat down and talked about this and he still thinks being a selfish twonk is his right, I think you need to have a long hard think about a few more issues than just this. Because being stuck at home with a screaming baby while DH goes out for an allnighter and comes in bladdered doesn't sound a recipe for bliss, to me. And if he really can't or won't stop for such a good reason, when there's evidence it's a problem and he wants a baby as much as you do, then his drinking is squarely in the realms of the problematic, IMO".

Gosh Confuzled how do you know what the ops dp or their relationsip is like [hmm. If they do have a baby they might take it in turns to have a couple of night out with friends, or ask friends or relatives to babysit occasionally for a night out. Geese all these assumptions with very little factual evidence that this might happen. No wonder the poor bloke wants a night out who can blame him, he is human being with feelings after all not a sperm bank fgs

So your advice is that trying to control others is pointless, except when they disagree with you?

No doctor would recommend ICSI to a woman whose husband has a low sperm count within 8 months, let alone if that count is due to drinking too much. I simply pointed that out. If you don't like your advice being challenged, then don't post it on MN.

Some people who are not alcoholics nonetheless have problematic relationships with alcohol. I would suspect the OP has a better grip on whether her DH is one of them than you.

You'd think this man was a raving alcholic...

When it's probably better he gets a few daft lads nights out under his belt before a baby is born.

I think to be honest that if we were in your situation OP, then my DH wouldn't drink bar perhaps 1 or 2. It 'only' took 6 months to conceive our first DC whom I'm carrying at the moment, and we managed to stay pretty chilled out. But I acknowledge that there were times we both got a little depressed by it, and I'm sure that at that point we both would have done anything to conceive. You spend so much time trying not to get pregnant that the impression is given that it happens at the drop of the hat, which we all know it doesn't most of the time!

I do feel for you OP, but you can't control him. You sound like you have a very supportive relationship; you of his work difficulties and need to have fun, and he of the cutting down drinking thing. No-one can criticise that, and as such I think the odd drinking session is going to do little damage, and you don't want your DH to resent you or to feel that you resent him.

So the poor bloke wants a night out and he is an alcoholic confuzled . You cannot control a person, if a realationship is based on control than there will be problems. Same Confuzled, this is a free forum.

Re reading the OP it would not be unreasonable to ask your DP to cut down on the weekly alcohol take more than the big night out.

I haven't ever said you shouldn't say anything. I'm just disagreeing with you. And if you'd read my original post beyond the bit where I pointed out that you'd said something extremely stupid, you'll see I flatly said that control is not good in a relationship, and that they needed to sit down and talk. I also didn't ever call him an alcoholic.

It seems there is yet another aspect of health more complex than you realised. The man has heavily cut down on his drinking. This means he currently drinks a beer followed by half a bottle of wine 3 times a week. His more usual drinking habits were described as heavy. The cutting down is because of trying to conceive, and OP is pretty damn sure that he isn't going to stick to that when he goes out with his mates, despite there being a strong reason why he needs to. All that is in the OP, and I'm not making any assumptions at all. The info is clearly given. There's also absolutely no indication that he doesn't regard his non-ttc drinking habits as the normal ones, ready for reversion after conception occurs. Assuming he won't is every bit as much of an assumption, and one based on changing behaviour instead of continuing the existing. Which assumption do you find most commonly correct, personally? Change or status quo?

Is she reasonable in wanting him to drink moderately? Yes, I would certainly think so. She knows the booze is reducing his sperm count, and she isn't asking him to stop altogether; just to cut down. If he is struggling to do that with such a good motivation then that would worry me, yes. There is a spectrum of drinking with teetotaller at one end and alcoholic at the other; many people have problems with their drinking habits, and many of them can resolve those problems without needing to become teetotal. You can be a problem drinker without being an alcoholic. The definition of someone with a problem is that their drinking is adversely impacting on their lives, and yet they find it hard to change. If he really is going to get smashed despite their ttc, then this would seem to describe the OP's situation rather well.

If the OP's DH is saying one thing, but his actions are saying otherwise perhaps it would be a good idea to get to the bottom of that before trying to bring a baby into the equation?

Gah. Pigletmania, I'm sorry to be snippy. We all have flu here and I probably phrased the ICSI thing badly, which put your back up, and now we're getting into a spiral of wank. I have a strong opinion on this, based on a bit of knowledge of drinking difficulties in someone close, but while that gives me some info due to having to gen up on the subject, I freely admit I am reading the OP in light of that. The usefulness of knowledge is cancelled out by the prejudice of personal experience.

I didn't mean to be offensive, or say you shouldn't have a different viewpoint. It isn't what I think, on MN or anywhere else. If it came across that way then I apologise.