to think that smoking in a children's playground is just not on!

[macdoodle]

First sunny day, packed park, mum (with dad and toddler) puffing away without a care!
Now she wasn't stood away from the children, she was stood watching her child right next to the toddler's frame and slide, it was full of children going up and down (including my 2yr old DD2)!
I was stood a bit further away and was getting a good old whiff of smoke, so am sure the toddlers were too!

Now I know its open air, and blah blah blah, but come on, could she not wait till they left the park, or go and stand away from the children!

So AIBU????

It's interesting that the people defending the smoking over small children in the park like to bandy about words like totalitarian. Because, in fact, I think most of the people who think the mother should have moved away don't expect her to be subordinate to authority or the state but just want her tohave some degree of manners, to be polite, to think of the comfort of other people in a shared space. It's easy from a position of defence to shout nanny state and 1984, but what the normal, ordinary majority of people want is that you have some respect for their comfort. They're not judging your habit, they're judging your manners.

And 'joyless and intolerant'? Well, can you hear the irony in that statement? We're joyless because we want to take our children to the park and not stand next to somebody breathing out noxious gases. Your choice to smoke wherever you choose takes away other people's joy and pleasure. We all have to limit our behaviours in public when part of a shared society. It's having respect for the person standing next to you. You are allowed to smoke. Don't forget that it is your habit, your addiction. It is not ours to suffer. As a society we are tolerant of it. There are smoking areas, we do treat the side effects of it, we do provide support for people wishing to break the habit, at least have some respect in return and move away from the children on the playpark. It is antisocial. It actually doesn't matter what the behaviour, if you blindly choose to continue when moving a few feet away would show some level of respect and manners then this says nothing about addiction or habit or choice but everything about your rude, unreasonable attitude to sharing the world with other people.

What ShowOfHands said. Very eloquently put....

here here SOH

I find a lot of things offensive.

Perfume
BO
Bad dress sense
Fat people hogging space in trains,planes and on benches
Dogs bounding around
Mobile phone use

THat's just the start of it.
Shall I call for these to be 'banned' too?

i've quit but would have just waited for a fag

YANBU in not liking people to smoke around children, but alas, it is still legal to smoke outside in a park. I have asthma, and really wish people would stop wearing scent and using scented fabric softeners, candles, etc., but what can I do about it?
At least she was outside, not inside.
She was setting a bad example, and making herself look tacky, but, as long as they keep selling tobacco, people will smoke.

It is not the authority of the state that it is the problem here, it is the intolerance of those who use a made up risk to children (from smoke wafting through the open air, air cannot be 'enclosed' or 'confined' unless there are walls around it) to justify their hatred for people who have made different choices to themselves.

YANBU and I'm a smoker. I wouldn't smoke in a playground as it's an area for children. I don't think they allow smoking in the playgrounds near me anyway.

JGOWI, this 'hatred for people' is not what is being discussed. Nobody is hating smokers, they are questioning the manners of a person who willingly subjects others to the horrid smell and nasty taste of their choice. You see a smoker can choose to smoke and still be a reasonable person, move away if others are made uncomfortable. By smoking next to me you are taking away my right not to smell of your smoke. By smoking over those children, you take away their choice. The smoker can move away and still have her cigarette. The child cannot move away and still enjoy the slide. It's about reasonable and polite behaviour.

And what always happens on smoking threads is that it gets compared to other behaviours as a justification. Well, isn't that what we hate politicians for, avoiding the question in isolation and making unfavourable and unjust comparisons. Well yes, there are all sorts of undesirable and antisocial behaviours and we can discuss those if you like, but we're talking about smoking over children here. It isn't permissable because there are other mildly comparative behaviours. Maybe I should drive while talking on my mobile because at least I'm not driving drunk. It's silly. The one does not excuse the other.

Smoke if you want but have some thought for those around you and allow them a choice too.

YANBU

I have no hatred of smokers, and indeed used to be one myself. At no point as a smoker have I ever felt the need to smoke near children or other people when there has been the option not to.

I genuinely fail to see why the woman couldn't have moved away, had her cigarette whilst the husband watched the child, and then returned

No, I think you are being quite reasonable expecting the woman to go out of the play park to smoke.

Most play parks I frequent have signs saying 'no smoking' in them.

i don't understand why some posters think that a non smoker standing next to someone smoking outside does not breathe in some/part of that smoke.

Have these posters never been next to someone smoking outside?

OK so we pick DGD up from the nursery in the non-smoking car, drive 20 miles to go to a particular small shop, are in the shop for say 30 minutes, drive on to the riverside, feed the ducks and walk on to the play area. We are the only ones there so while Granpa helps DGD on the slides, swings, I chose a bench well away and light a cigarette. A Mum arrives with toddler and baby in pram and sits on same bench although there are 5 other benches around, most nearer to play equipment. Her toddler sets of unsupervised on to slide etc. and I turn to admire sleeping baby to be met with the anti-smoking fish face. She is quite happy to allow my DH to help her DD on and off the shute and swings but I am personna non gratia. I walked off and waited at the bridge for Granpa and DGD.

Now who in this scenario was showing lack of manners and consideration?

Granny, that's a different situation to the first one entirely. Do you really want to discuss that situation because we can if you'd like but it doesn't detract from the op's scenario and just because the smoker in the op is lacking in manners and consideration, doesn't mean that all smokers are or that all non-smokers are considerate.

There are a billion smokers and a billion scenarios we can play with here but it's not furthuring the discussion remotely.

But the OP didn't even say anything to the smoking woman, so the smoking woman could reasonably assume that smoking in the open-air is still regarded by most reasonably tolerant people as responsible, normal beahaviour rather than irresponsible or rude behaviour.

My problem is with the assumption that other people who do things we do not like are doing those things because they are rude and inconsiderate rather than that they are not entirely attuned to quite how narrow-minded and health-obsessed some p/eople have become.

I do not smoke but would rather give the smoker the benefit of the doubt than assume they are an ignorant, selfish cretin. Makes for a much more pleasant life all round.

From a different perspective - i am an ex smoker and I HATE people smoking around me in public places like that because I have to work hard every day not to smoke (knowing how harmful it is and not wanting my children to copy my bad behaviour) and the smell and visibility is horrific - vile and stomach churning but irritatingly reminiscent.

How many people do you think would give up heroin if you could go to a park and jack up round the little uns. Smoking in front of small children may or may not have a health impact but it is morally questionable and selfish to everyone else who doesnt want to smell the god awful retch of fag whiff.

If you are that worried about your child being polluted by someone smoking in a park, perhaps you should stop travelling by plane or car.

I am so with show of hands - the fact is it isnt that harmful in the open air. It is however encouraging to tiny minds and blardy stinky to everyone else and she should have moved away. I also dislike mums smoking outside the school gates for the same reasons.

A smoker be ignorant to the fact that it's smelly and offensive? Come on, of course she isn't. Even the smokers on here acknowledge that it is what it is.

And claw, I neither drive nor travel by plane. Can I have an opinion on smoking now? Again, these comparisons do not detract from the discussion. Smoking is not driving and we should be able to discuss the former without excusing it with the latter.

Yes i agree it is smelly, so you object to a lady in the park smoking, because you didnt like the smell?

It is perfectly possible for a smoker to think that it is not offensive to smoke outside, after all, that's the only place they keep being told it IS acceptable to smoke.

I can't believe how controversial this is. Smoking IS harmful, if you can smell cigarette smoke then you are taking in some of the toxins. It doesn't matter HOW harmful it is in the open air, compared to enclosed spaces etc etc. It is harmful, and no one should expose children to something that is harmful, has NO benefits for them and is very easily avoidable. I can not understand why she didn't just walk a little further away. Makes no sense to me.

It's not just smoking outside. It's smoking whilst standing next to a climbing frame with children all over it. Move away a bit.

And no I don't like the smell. I don't like having to breathe in noxious fumes. I don't like having to smell of your cigarette smoke for hours to come. I don't like having to wash my child's hair and clothes just because one woman didn't have the good grace to walk 20 yards or wait 10 minutes. And you make it impossible to avoid it. If my Dad had taken my dd to that park, he wouldn't have been able to stand next to the slide and supervise dd while a woman was there smoking. He would of course politely ask her to move away but through bitter experience he knows how that can go.

In all good conscience you can't really argue that standing next to a packed climbing frame is the best place for a fag break.

I smoke and I would never smoke next to children.
Aside from the health impact, which, indeed, if outside and sporadic, might be negligible, IT IS without a doubt extremely bad manners to subject those around you to the smell.

They do stink, and certainly people who don't smoke will not like the smell, so out of courtesy people should refrain from doing something that will likely bother others.

If I'm waiting at the bus stop, I will not assume that all the other people there are avid smokers and would love to inhale some of my cigarette smoke. It's safe to assume that there will be several people there who are not smokers so it would be rude for me to subject them to the fumes.

I remember sitting on the bench in the children's park with dd who was 2 or 3 months old. Some guy sat on the bench next to me and started smoking. It all went our way. Should I have moved then? Or was it rather anti social of him to start puffing 2 meters away from a little baby?

I think I'll steer clear of playgrounds from now onwards, even though I don't smoke. Will take them to the woods where they can run the gauntlet of unleashed pit-bull-look-alikes....