to think that smoking in a children's playground is just not on!

[macdoodle]

First sunny day, packed park, mum (with dad and toddler) puffing away without a care!
Now she wasn't stood away from the children, she was stood watching her child right next to the toddler's frame and slide, it was full of children going up and down (including my 2yr old DD2)!
I was stood a bit further away and was getting a good old whiff of smoke, so am sure the toddlers were too!

Now I know its open air, and blah blah blah, but come on, could she not wait till they left the park, or go and stand away from the children!

So AIBU????

Well BitOfFun, that's pretty much the crux of it. There is no harm in the original scenario. It has apparently become considered bad manners to smoke near a child in an open space by an increasing number of people (particularly antsy mums it seems), but it could be reasonably construed by the smoker as polite behaviour given that a) smoking is legal in an open space b) it is not harmful in an open space c) the smell is really not going to linger on anyone else's clothes in the open air d) a still significant number of non-smokers would not consider it either rude or harmful.

I think ths op's point is fair enough, smokers are a selfish lot, I don't know how many times I've seen one pushing their buggy with a cigarette between their fingers and the smoke drifting all over their own dc. They just don't care, my parents smoked and I always hated it.

Really it's just rude and ignorant to smoke in a children's play park let alone not even stepping aside a bit.

Why did you ask the question mcdoodle.
You are not asking if yabu, you are telling us you are not.

yup.

the smell really does linger if you are downwind of a smoker. the rest is subjective.

Smell of smoke does linger on clothes, even if in the open air.

I don't think it's likely to pose a massive health risk - I'd prefer my dc not to breathe in second hand smoke, but then I'd prefer them not to breathe in exhaust fumes.

& yes, your fags might set off my asthma, but tbh the heavily perfumed colleague with whom I liftshare is more likely to, bless her.

BUT it really really does stink. I had no idea how badly, when I smoked myself. I'm not particularly sensitive to smells, but cigarette smoke is offensive to lots of people.

Admittedly not as bad as the stale smell which clings to smokers - there's one lady who regularly gets on the same bus as me in the morning, nice woman, we pass the time of day - but she reeks. & at 7:30 it's all I can do not to move so as not to retch.

Anyway, OP, yanbu - it's unpleasant & selfish. The smoker should've nipped off for a fag & left her dp to keep an eye on dc for 5 minutes. & if she were on her own with the child, waited until she was away from the playground.

OK, so might the smell of a bonfire linger but you might regard that as a seasonal smell of Autumn. The bonfire burner is not being impolite if his smoke blows into a local park! November 5 is not the day of national rudeness!

LOL!

Different smell entirely.

Smoking's a funny old thing isn't it?

I could swear at you in a park tomorrow, you could call the police and they could fine me under section 5 of the public whatsit whatsit (I really need to pay more attention to dh when he's waffling on about work).

I could instead light up and breathe foul smelling smoke all over you and you couldn't do a damn thing about it.

You see a swear word doesn't stick to you, it doesn't physically assault your senses, it doesn't have the small but real risk of harm to the person hearing it, but I could be in trouble with the police for swearing at you. Or playing loud music near you.

So what is it about the multi-billion pound industry of smoking that means it's allowed to continue in public?

Funny old world isn't it?

Bonfires cause a lot of neighbour disputes

Ultimately, things don't need to be illegal for them to be unpleasant and inconsiderate. There will always be people who feel the need to assert their right to do things because they aren't illegal.

Presumably if you are aggressively swearing at another person you trying to threaten or intimidate them, which is harmful (although physical violence could be much more objectively established as harmful). A smoker in an open space may be doing something harmful to themself, but nothing at all to other people other than potentially making those who might not like the smell of smoke turn there noses away or wash their clothes when they get home.

It's not about me aggressively swearing though. It's about perception. If you perceive my swearing to be intimidating then you are in the right and in turn I have broken the law. You only have to watch Road Wars (I know I know) and hear a man say "I haven't fucking done anything" and they are given a ticket because it's about the way the person hearing the swearing feels about it.

No things don't have to be illegal for them to be inconsiderate but it is interesting that smoking is something that is clearly anti-social and without benefit but it's an anti-social thing that you cannot complain about in any way that could change it or stop it.

"A person is guilty of an offence if he?

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby "

That's section 5, so it doesn't have to be directed at you, you just have to be within sight or hearing of the behaviour or words.

macdoodle, please don't spray that air freshener around willy nilly, it's full of toxic chemicals and triggers my asthma something shocking.

YABU - she could have stood downwind, but it's a public place.

Obliging people to wash their clothes when they get home strikes me as fairly antisocial.

Why is it such a big deal to refrain from smoking in a playground?

Also, if I still smoked, I'd want my dc not to. I'd rather they saw me going away to smoke - saw it as a bit of a gross habit not to be indulged around other people. Smoking in public places 'normalizes' it, & I'd be surprised to meet a smoker in 2010 who wanted their kids to see it as a good idea.

I would rather explain to my children that some people snoke because a) they like it and b) it is difficult to give up than to have to explain to them that some adults are a)so intolerant of other peoples' habits b) so unconvinced of their own ability to persuade their children that smoking is inadvisable that they think somebody smoking in the open air poses a major threat to others' health or sensibilities and should be told off like a child or treated like a social leper.

i would be very annoyed with the lady smoking so near to the play equipment. i tend to take my children away from smoking adults due to one being an asmatic and another has heart problems. my children call them fire sticks and often ask me why they are smoking them in areas where there are big signs asking people not to smoke( normally by entrance to hospitals)

If Mumsnet is anything to go by, parents seem to be at the forefront of puritanism and intolerance. It would be a joyless world indeed if every adult activity had to pass the test of being demonstrably safe for children to witness.

It would indeed, JGOWI.

But if an activity is demonstrably smelly, offensive to many, & arguably causes harm to some, it would seem basic politeness to move to a genuinely open space (ie. the rest of the park) rather than inflicting it on other people in a relatively confined area (ie. the playground)?

Don't get it, sorry. I smoked for 20 years & would always cheerfully have moved away from other people if they objected to it.

ok my initial point was really not that the smoke was imminently dangerous and cause my child/ren (my older one was further away)instant harm!
I really am not that precious (or stupid)!

There really are significant health risks to smoking, not something I like to see anywhere to be honest, and certainly not in a park!

But I guess my initial point, was why do it?? Its not like it needs to be done instantly that minute, what ever happened to good manners, consideration and a tiny bit of self restraint!

She must have known that the "majority" (clearly by this thread some of you wouldnt have minded at all), of parents would not have been overjoyed, I just dont understand why she couldnt have either moved away or waited till they left (blimey half an hour, was she going to go into withdrawal in that time)!

FWIW, she was bloody close to the kids, not wafting over the air, she was stood right close to the slide and puffing continually over a large group of toddlers, I could smell it quite strongly (which is how I noticed it), a bit away so the smell was pretty strong by the children!

My point of the links was how much nicotine was still in the urine of those children whose parents didnt even smoke in the same room, so residual smoke in the air,hands, clothing, so still a significant amount absorbed! Clearly its not something that can ever be tested or quantified, but I think to blithely say it does NO harm is foolish in the extreme!

As said before, yes I do have more important things to worry about, was just that in this day anyone would think this was an acceptable place to smoke!

Oh, and I am a real GP , bona fide, in practice for nearly 10 years, and I consider it MY JOB to warn smokers of the risks to their health, doesnt make me judgy or a bad GP, but if they want to die a horrible death of emphysema, lung cancer or throat cancer thats entirely their decsision!

YANBU I think people should be able to smoke in their own houses and no where else, why should another person have to breath in smoke in a playground or walking down the street, it's disgusting!

Dear God
And so we inch a step nearer to a totalitarian state.
I'd really enjoy having a fag around you lot just to watch your faces takes on that cat's bum look.