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Original poster

To think that this cartoon really isn't too "graphic" for seven year olds?

225 replies

squirrel42 · 04/03/2010 20:01

Full news story is here: the latest Mail-sponsored "uproar" is over a sex education cartoon being shown at a primary school. Parents were apparently asked in advance if they wanted to view it first, some weren't able to attend the pre-viewing session but okayed it for their children to see anyway. At least one was later angry enough about what their child saw and some other children "copying" what they'd seen (presumbly not completely) that they have removed their child from the school.

I found a youtube link to the cartoon they're talking about here (NSFW obviously since it has cartoon sexual intercourse in it). Maybe it's my wooly liberal side speaking, but I really don't see what the problem is with that clip. You don't see any erect cartoon penises or a close up of "the action" just the general bodily movements, and sex is presented as an enjoyable activity engaged in by adults who love each other. Not quite what the parent says in their DM quote: "It should have said in the letter children would learn how to have sexual intercourse".

I really don't get what is in the cartoon that is apparently so objectionable for seven to eight year olds. Thoughts?

OP posts:
pointydog · 05/03/2010 17:59

I would be pissed off if my 7 yr old saw that.

frogetyfrog · 05/03/2010 18:01

I would be fuming if my 8 year old saw that, let alone at 7. It depends on the child, my 8 year old is still young mentally. We are now beginning to talk about body changes slowly and I would like to think I have time to get to the sex education bit when she is ready.

diddl · 05/03/2010 18:05

I agree it depends on the child.
Which is perhaps why they give parents the opportunity to view first & say yay or nay?

pointydog · 05/03/2010 18:09

I find it completely unnecessry for 7 yr olds and I'd rather my 7 yr olds were taught othe r stuff.

crumpet · 05/03/2010 18:12

What Custardo said. Big difference between a factual explanation and a graphic visual demonstration.

Too much too young.

pigletmania · 05/03/2010 18:24

I would rather my dd learnt about tectonic plates at school more useful considering what is going on in the world at the moment. How long before the government do not give parents a choice and force all children to take part in their Sex Ed programmes.

pigletmania · 05/03/2010 18:25

getting close to a nanny state dictatorship.

lillybloom · 05/03/2010 18:32

I wouldn't want my 7 yr old to see the video. He's just not ready for the information. i think I would agree with around age 10 or 11 though.

rainfatclouds · 05/03/2010 19:28

"Which is perhaps why they give parents the opportunity to view first & say yay or nay?"

Thing is, if they show it to half the class, the other half will spread it around in a Chinese whispers way which could be worse. As a parent one would feel under pressure. It's not enough to be able to opt out.

Parents who feel that this is OK have the option outside school to show their children more graphic material. But an option is being removed from parents who don't feel the same way.

Someone described parents who wouldn't like it as "uptight prudes". I don't know why anyone would describe a parent who doesn't really want their 7yo to see cartoon sex as an "uptight prude", it seems quite a normal reaction to me.

It's not as if those parents aren't explaining bodily changes to their children at all. Parents who would consider themselves not "uptight prudes" would be able to offer their children more detail anyway.

I think this is where claig is coming from: the removal of parent choice. There is information that should be shared but views on the level and content vary so widely that to be very graphic in a cartoon which parents are under pressure to show their children doesn't seem acceptable to me.

paisleyleaf · 05/03/2010 20:41

raincloud, yes that chinese whispers thing is why I don't like it too.
So while I don't like the video (for 7 year olds), if they were playing it to my DD's class I'd probably have her watch it with those who are, rather than not.
But wouldn't be happy.

TheFirstLady · 05/03/2010 21:05

Well, uptight prudes was tongue in cheek, but all the same I really don't get the problem some of you have here.
BoL - you are so right about The Joy of Sex. Those hippies were enough to put Tiger Woods off it.

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:24

Firstlady, you have the choice about being graphic with your seven year olds anyway. You have no problem with it, so why remove the choice from people who do. We are not insane or weird, just more cautious and do things different. Most people agree that education about puberty should begin at eight or nine, and factual education about sex a little later maybe. It's quite rare for a person to want to keep their children in ignorance until 14, and quite difficult nowadays anyway.

This is forcing the issue. It's not the way many parents would like to do it, and I don't feel it's necessary. I wouldn't stop you from doing it your way: but this would stop me from doing it mine. It doesn't do well to be so scathing.

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:25

"do things different"

good lord I have alzheimers

do things differently of course

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:29

There is a book, by Babette Cole, which I did actually give my children around seven. It has some cartoons. But that's me, that's what I did. Other people might feel it's a bit much. It's a matter of choice.

Also moving pictures are different. They just are. It's almost showing children what to do. A book at home is reigned in by the parameters of parental guidance and conversation.

It's naive to think no children will want to act it out, and those who have more awareness of sex anyway might use it to tease and so on.

Rollmops · 05/03/2010 21:29

Perfect if you are of a mindset that your child, following the family tradition, will be having sex in the next few years, be my guest. Rent a big screen TV, oh, you probably have it already, provided by the taxpayer.....

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:33

It's very depressing and seems to follow the current mantra of "it's happening anyway, we need to join in"

As adults we need to think harder about it than this.

TheFirstLady · 05/03/2010 21:42

My children had that Babette Cole book (I presume you mean Mummy Laid an Egg) when they were three or four. I don't think it is really intended for older children.
I really don't GET what the problem is with children of any age understanding the mechanics of sex. Why is it any different to understanding the other things our bodies do, like digestion? Why is knowing HOW people have sex more likely to result in them having sex at a young age? I just don't see it.

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:46

My children would not have understood it at the age of three, you must have quite advanced children.

Because it does, firstlady, you are naive to think it doesn't.

morningpaper · 05/03/2010 21:48

No that book is SURELY for tiny children, mine read it at 3 and 4

It's not COMPLICATED

FOSSILS are complicated

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:51

Mine would not have known what it was about. We had hardly started questions about how where babies come from. It's not complicated: it's about something that relatable to nothing they were interested in. There was no embarrassment factor. It was a non subject. Perhaps I should have forced it on them instead of Thomas the Tank Engine

morningpaper · 05/03/2010 21:53

But you don't FORCE evolution onto them

or DINOSAURS

or How Ships Work

It's just another subject

It's all so meh to me TBH

probonino · 05/03/2010 21:59

Sex isn't just another subject.

Unless you think it doesn't matter who, what, when and why you have sex, it isn't just another subject.

People have different codes of behaviour around sex. There are issues of morality, judgement, self respect, safety, self-discipline, self preservation, harassment, bullying, exclusion, social acceptability, aspiration, health, social welfare and oppression around the sex.

It is not for people who have one code to oblige others to toe that line: a medium has to be found. So, a pretty good medium is found, with school education starting around Y4 and getting more graphic around Y6 to 7. I'm sure there are many on both sides who want it differently, but it's a sensitive place so you have to consider both sides.

What people do in their own home is different.

TheFirstLady · 05/03/2010 21:59

I don't think my children or MP's are particularly advanced (well maybe MP's are) but that book is perfectly understandable by any normal preschooler. I didn't force it on them. Only if you have a three or four year old and you are pregnant they want to know how it got in there. So I told them. Like I told them how the aeroplane doesn't fall out of the sky, or why the stars come out at night. Simples.

probonino · 05/03/2010 22:00

"around the sex"

that sounds funny, I mean around sex, really I orta preview

TheFirstLady · 05/03/2010 22:02

Oh right. Because obviously anyone who tells a four year old about sex is lacking in moral values and determined to expose their children to a life of vice, moral turpitude and the hairy bloke from the Joy of Sex.