that huge buggies should be banned from buses

[donkeyderby]

I was on the bus yesterday, and a woman got on pushing her child in an oversized buggy that took up four fold-up seat spaces.

AIBU to think that if you travel regularly by bus, you should invest in a cheap umbrella-style pushchair that takes only one space up?

YANBU. You have made it perfectly clear that you are talking about 'unnecessarily' large prams, not people with disabled children/twins/baby and tiny toddler.

Really? Here in London two buggies are allowed on the buses unfolded

What????

Nope, in Edinburgh it has been thus ever since I had DS at least, a few years ago. One unfolded buggy at a time. There are signs and the drivers constantly restate it to anyone boarding with a second buggy, size notwithstanding.

I just think it's the kind of thing where it's impossible to make a blanket condemnation; it would be better if everyone (buggy users included, but also other passengers) stepped up their efforts to realize that the bus is meant to be for everyone insofar as possible, and to behave accordingly rather than tutting (in the case of other passengers) or barging around inconsiderately (in the case of buggy users).

"Banning" buggies that are "too big" ... well, ok, how do you do that exactly? Issue measurements for height, width and length? Get the driver to enforce them to the centimetre? Not plausible, so you'd have to take the Lothian Buses angle that all unfoldable buggies are banned, which brings problems of its own as illustrated with that young girl with the new baby in a hand-me-down pram and no other way of getting into town. Any outright ban just serves to alienate a lot of people who are regular paying bus users and genuinely need the service; and the wider benefits are questionable.

As long as everyone knows, and signage makes clear, that wheelchair users absolutely have priority (and sadly not everyone does know this, as per this thread I guess) then I think that's enough in terms of regulation. The rest is down to people not being arses to each other (sadly unenforceable, hey ho)

Why Mazzy? Why should people stand on a bus because a parent cannot be bothered to fold their buggy up? A buggy is not a person and a toddler in a buggy can sit on one seat rather than take up 4. It is is just selfishness to believe your child should be able to take the seats of 4 adults.

Strue, I think you need to justify that analogy. At the moment it just sounds like you are comparing black people to what is essentially an item of luggage.

I think Strue was using SARCASM to make a point.

I wonder wrt safety of toddler/baby in a buggy or sat on a bus seat. Does anyone know of any research?

MillyR, what if it's a young baby? Usually in a big buggy, that's who's travelling. Or a toddler, technically old enough to sit up, but fast asleep?

"A buggy is not a person" -- OK, but the occupant is.

And surely taking up the seats of 4 adults is very much the exception? In most cases the buggy takes up only one more space than a regular passenger would. Actually most of the time I found that me and my "big" buggy together still only took up 2 normal passenger spaces.

Again I think one can't make massive generalizations, they just don't ring true enough. The variety of circumstances in which they have to apply is just too great for it to ever work.

What a futile thread, not sure why I am getting so caught up in it really! Must return to RL ...

Even a standard buggy, will take up for seats due to the way the buses are designed around here, as does a wheelchair, due to the design off the buses!

I never unfold my pushchair, as simply those spaces are allocated for pushchair/wheelchair users, I never sit on a bus, and I cannot handle two children getting onto a bus, folding down ds pushchair, while the fucking idiot driver drives off with me trying to get pushchair into holding, carrying ds 7 months, and trying to guide dc 4 so he doesn't fall over because the idiot driver refused to wait till everybody is seated! countless times this has happened even tho I have complained numerous times to the bus company!

My children's safety far far over rides a seat for a abled bodied passenger, which is why I use the space which is designed for pushchair passengers!

I couldn't care what anybody else thought, I use and pay for a service that is provided for me and my pushchair (loola)

Crossed posts between me and LittleMrsHappy illustrate how very differently designed the buses are in different towns.

Of course someone with a wheelchair has first dibs on the space over unfolded pushchairs, but I wouldn't want someone with a large pushchair filled with shopping to have to unload all their stuff, and the baby, and then try to fold it unecessarily.

Large pushchairs are often easier to push, allow you to carry plenty of grocery shopping and are often a better place for a baby to be than some piddly little buggy.

YABU.

I have had children (obviously) and I don't drive. So I took my baby and a two year old on and off buses and didn't find it difficult to get them all on and off the bus and fold a pushchair.

So I cannot understand why other able bodied women can't manage this. At 4 DS was going to school on the school bus without an adult so I think it is very silly that an adult should feel a 4 year old cannot sit down on a bus without adult assistance. When I first had children there were no buggy spaces, and on all our buses now, it is not a buggy space, it is a wheelchair space.

If you feel it is unsafe for your child to get on a bus out of a buggy, then you shouldn't get on a bus, because you are putting your child at risk when wheelchair users get on the bus.

"AIBU to think that if you travel regularly by bus, you should invest in a cheap umbrella-style pushchair that takes only one space up?"

and if you usually walk everywhere, and a large buggy suits your needs better, but once in a while need to use the bus are you expected to go and buy another bug just for those journeys?

Someone was on my bus with a white frilly version of this the other day, taking up the wheelchair space or the space that two or three people with sensible pushchairs could have been using.

I thought that was the sort of pram the OP was talking about. I see a lot of them these days with just one tiny baby in.

Of course it would really help if bus drivers would actually do what they are asked to do and wait while you fold your buggy, get toddler safely on seat, shopping in the rack but they never seem to

Milly I never once stated that ds couldn't get to the seat unaided, he does need aid when the driver sets off and leaves him in the middle of the bus isle, while setting off! leaving him prone to falling and hurting himself, which actually happened, when the fuckwit driver set off, and ds fell over and sprained his wrist.

Just because you can do it, does not mean everyone else can, I mean if that were the case we could all be brain surgeons, athlete etc...... Its a rather silly comparison, and one that is naive to say the least!

My toddler has fallen over in the aisle more times than I can count. Your poor DS, LMH!

I've heard passengers with pushchairs complaining about elderly people using the spaces for their trolleys. Some of them are so frail and you just know that none of the people moaning about them would bother to help put the trolleys on the rack...

How on earth am I putting my child at risk by when WHEELCHAIR USER GETS ON I get off the bus and wait for the next bus!

i dont have a choice to use public service, I am not fit to drive until I am seizure free for a year!

Were not living 4 years ago, we living in this time frame now, and thankfully public transport has advanced so that pushchairs can use public transport, with shock horror their pushchairs! ALL public transport here have space for pushchairs and wheelchair users, we have 2 allocated spaces, if those spaces are taking up with a pushchair, the wheelchair user gets one of the space and the pushchair user gets off and waits for the next bus! The way it should be!

The difficulty involved in me being able to get a baby on a bus is not comparable to brain surgery or athletics. Weirdly, 12 years ago when I had my first child and there were steps to get on to buses, everybody (able bodied) could carry a baby on to a bus. Then they put in level access for disabled people and parents everywhere mysteriously lost the ability to fold a pushchair.

Mrs Happy, you are not putting your child at risk. That is my point. It is just a ridiculous claim that children are put at risk if they are taken out of a pram on public transport. The train company in West Yorkshire has now banned unfolded prams. The selfishness on this thread demonstrates why they needed to do that.

yes, as then they did not have allocated space! so HAD too! I have not lost the ability to fold my pushchair down, I choose not too, and wait or get off if need be and wait for the next bus!

your comparison is still naive, just because YOU can do something does not mean others can!

YANBU

I use buses at least 3 times a week and trains a similar amount. I have a small child and no car. I have never, ever taken a pushchair, large or small, onto public transport. I understand if you've more than one child, but I have seen wheelchairs refused because buggies are on board, I've seen 2 and 3 year olds straining to get out of the pushchair, free seats available, and still they don't fold them to let others on! I do agree it's not a matter of the size of your child-transport, whatever it may be, but of a matter of common sense and genuine consideration for others, but overall, YANBU.

so you don't understand taking a single child in a buggy on a bus.........we don't all live near the bus stop, some of us walk quite some distance before getting on the bus, and again getting off, small (especially non-walking) children tend to be a little difficult to get from A to B on foot if you don't have a car........even if it's just one child.

In the grand scheme of things does it really matter?

I have what I'm guessing you would class as a big pram, it suits my needs, is comfy for DS & can put up with going miles every day as I walk most places. In the past, occassionly, I have hopped on the bus for what ever reason, I'm certainly not going to buy a cheap fold up pushhair that my DS would be bloody uncofotable in & would rattle like a shopping trolley over all the fields I walk through just incase I need to get on a bus one day again in the future.

YABU.