'ODD'or just naughty kids with ineffective parenting?

[Rosebud123]

ODD - please! I have a friend whose child has just been 'diagnosed' with ODD.Having known her since a toddler, I have witnessed lack of structure and inconsistency since then. Her behaviour has escalated,understandably. Children need to know what is ok and what is not ok. Did you know that ODD children are now being medicalised?We are rearing a generation of children on ritalin and antidepressants which I find completely shocking.Children need our repect and proper parenting so they don't end up thinking the answer to all life's difficulties lies in pills.A friend who is a social worker says ODD is what children are called when they are told to go to bed and they refuse. Exactly!I found that going to ongoing parenting classes has helped in all aspects of my kids development when I didn't know what else to do. I wonder what Supernanny thinks of 'ODD'..

Well, my brother has several genuine learning difficulties (he's currently being reassessed as his old 'label' has gone out of use now), and my mum was an LSA, so I know quite a few labels, but I have never heard of ODD. What is it?

Is it just what your social worker friend said? Mildly disobedient children or something? I'm all for disadvantaged children getting the help they need, but if that is the case, it's a lot bit much.

Its 'Oppositional Defiance Disorder'

ODD is a descriptive term, for a set of behaviours. It doesnt imply anything more than that. For example it isnt saying that parenting isnt relevent.

Are Ritalin or antidepressents licensed treatments for ODD? Most of the articles I have read about it suggest parenting classes or psychological therapies as the usual approach to ODD.

ODD - Oppositional Defiance Disorder (won't do as they're told.)

50 / 50

It's supposed to be linked to ADHD is it not?

I suspect that true adhd / odd is probably part of the autistic spectrum.

But there are always parents who jump on the ADD / ADHD and now ODD labels to justify the pigs ear they have made of parenting. And sadly, it is these people that make the general population see any real cases as poor parenting and a bit of an excuse / joke.

But also remember it wasn't really THAT many years ago that autism was seen as poor parenting - still is by some people!

YABU

You are not afraid of generalising, are you?

I used to think the only problem with my friends' dd was that her parents babied her- until she spent the night with us and I came to realise how very odd some of her responses were. The next day they told me she had been diagnosed with Aspergers. What I thought was unusual parenting was actually their response to an unusual situation.

There was another more distant friend whom we all used to judge because her interactions with her ds seemed so odd when we met them briefly out and about. And then we found out he is severely autistic; in fact, it has become more and more apparent; it was just that his mum saw the signs long before we did.

I used to be told that it was only my ineffective parenting that caused my dd to imagine she was always having aches and pains everywhere. So I tried very hard to become a more effective parent and force her to behave. The last time we saw a doctor we were told that her joints have been irreparably damaged from the overstrain I put her through and which should never have happened to someone with her (now recognised) medical condition.

So I don't think I will be in a hurry again to trust "my friend the so-and-so".

so, aside from your thoughts on the diagnosis, it's going to be hard for you to be supportive of your friend. How will you manage that?

Sorry. I mean, I know there probably are children out there with real behavioural issues that are medical in nature, but that's basically a label for 'slightly unruly'.

Do most of the people with children like this have a fairly undisciplined attitude to parenting? One of my mum's HE contacts was a woman who basically let her children run riot and then couldn't control them, I bet she'd be a prime candidate. Then again, this is a woman who let her (under ten) DS keep about £800 of lego he ordered online using her credit card, because she was impressed that he knew how to do it .

Seriously, though, that does seem more than a little excessive. Particularly if they're actually medicating these children. Surely it would be cheaper for the NHS to run free parenting classes for parents who are struggling to control their children? And a lot healthier in the long run.

I am a parent who's DS does and always has presented with ODD (and other challenging) behaviours. He has a diagnosis of ODD along with Reactive Attachment Disorder/Developental Trauma due to neglect and trauma in his infancy with his birth mother. It's saddens me that so many people think it's all my ineffective parenting. How do you explain my other three normal, well-behaved children then?

whose

well quite, lequeen.

My children both have autism and I STILL manage to keep them in line it can be done, you just need to get creative. It may be harder, you may need some tips and advice, but there's always something you can do.

At one time, that 'something', for me, was grabbing ds1 and wrapping my body around his.

I don't accept that there's ever nothing you can do. But then I don't think that the parents of children who do actually have such conditions do do nothing. I think those who use such labels as an excuse are the ones who do nothing, and they're the ones giving the rest a bad name.

But where is the evidence that normally naughty children are actually given these diagnoses and supplied with medication?

Yes, it would be dreadful if this were common- but do we know that? This all sounds like hearsay.

Tbh the cases I have heard of where children have been diagnosed with ODD or similar were children who were very obviously disturbed, not normal children who just didn't like behaving. And the difference between such a troubled child and your average spirited/tantrumming/defiant child is just massive.

noone is 'naughty' or 'sad' anymore,
they are 'ADHD' and 'depressed'

i know people with real behavioural and mental health problems, and those that dont but excuse themselves with these labels.

it makes me so angry that a stroppy teenager who's upset cos her boyfriend dumped her and her parents split up [like pretty much everyone, god] is given pills because she is 'depressed' must be treated like a china doll, is considered on par with my lovely dad, who doesnt ask for help when he needs it because he thinks there's someone who 'deserves it more than him'. he had undiagnosed depression for years, and if anyone needs extra help from time to time, its him.

the autism thing heQet, how awful is that. now we know more than ever before [but will still never know enough] about autism, its appalling to think people could actually think that.

Tottwriter

The diagnostic criteria for ODD are as follows:

Diagnostic Criteria
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:
Note: Consider a criterion met only if the behavior occurs more frequently than is typically observed in individuals of comparable age and developmental level.
often loses temper
often argues with adults
often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
often deliberately annoys people
often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
is often angry and resentful
is often spiteful or vindictive
The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.
The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a psychotic or mood disorder.
Criteria are not met for conduct disorder, and, if the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for antisocial personality disorder.
If the child meets at least four of these criteria, and they are interfering with the childÂ?s ability to function, then he or she technically meets the definition of oppositionally defiant

They do not require that the cause of this behaviour is 'medical in nature'. The diagnosis of ODD is just a description of behaviours that a child might show.

You havent shown any evidence that children are routinely being medicated as a treatment solely for ODD, or that there are any licensed drug treatments for it.

The NHS does provide free parenting classes (in the area that I live in anyway). And that would be a common approach offered for parents struggling with thier childrens behaviour

there is no one answer ime.

some children are labelled as such when parenting is or (as possibly in your case Bythesea ) was the issue.

Or they were predisposed to such behaviour and their upbringing has played a part.

or they would have had issues no matter what parenting they had had.

But to make a judgement from the outside is a very deangerous game and pretty unhelpful.

But how do we know that the teenager in your example isn't as much as risk as an older person with depression, BritFish? Teens do actually commit suicide. Sometimes relationship problems are a trigger for longterm mental health issues. As a university teacher I come across a lot of young people with mental health problems and it would never occur to me that they might not need or deserve help just as much as older people. I have heard too many depressing stories.

quite HeQet

But I think there are also those who dismiss the parents and children where these conditions actually are present.

DS2 is very severe and yet I still get wankers people who are at my parenting. They seem unable to see that my parenting has had to adapt to deal with how his issues present rather than choosing to see it as my parenting causing his behaviour.
It is easier I guess

Although it does also require that they ignore the extraordinary well behaved siblings...

I think my preference is to believe parents.
It means I may occasionally sympathise with a parent who is actually just crap at that job.

But I would rather that than condemn a parent who is struggling with behaviours that they can neither understand nor control.

I have no doubt though that the crap parents labelling kids exist.

Have you thought of asking Supernanny to fix it, Riven?

Well I have rows with my DCs, they get stroppy, they argue and of course some times they can be disobedient but mostly they are polite, helpful, do as they are told etc.

Now some of that may be due to my parenting but, hand on heart, I would say that at least 60% of it is just due to what they are like. They are easy going kids.

So logic dictates that there must also be some children who won't do what you say and who will do things like break windows and climb on the roof (which would never even occur to my DCs) because that's what they are like.

And if it is poor parenting, if poor parenting has caused a disorder then the child still needs help . . . and a "label" will mean that the staff at the school they are at will be able to more easily employ strategies to help them.

I don't have much time with this "parents have made their own bed and must lie in it" stuff.