to think losing a baby at 22 weeks is potentially as hard as losing a baby at full term?

[onemissing]

Not much more to add really....having been through the former, I'm often confronted with comments alluding to an earlier loss being "easier" than a later or full term one.

Wondering what you lot think, really.

I think I really allowed myself to relax and enjoy the pregnancy after the 21 week scan. And after 32 weeks, I thought, well, even if the baby came now it would probably be ok,,,, so I really began to allow myself that I would hold a baby after 32 weeks. Before then there HAD been a very definite brake on my expectation that on a due date I would have a baby. For my own sake.

Of course a few weeks more or less do not make any difference to the sense of loss when a baby dies .

However I cannot help agreeing with the poster who said a MC at a few days after a missed period does IMO not begin to compare to a later loss. That 'later loss' though cannot be quantified in terms of number of weeks, I think.
I will always remember my mum telling me how you could not even get a pregnancy test from your Dr's unless you had missed 2 periods in the 60s when she was expecting us (showing my age...).

Also, some things quoted here as being hurtful actually helped me come to terms with my losses: 'natures way of ending something' 'had something wrong with it'.

I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to birth a still or, even worse, gasping baby .

To me it was always most important to remind myself that everybody's experience of a pregnancy loss, no matter when, is totally unique to them and their response to it is going to their very own. Comparing is just not helpful...

BTW, a lot of women with Turner's are infertile, but a v significant number of pregnancies who have chromosomal abnormalities will miscarry. FWIW, of my 4 losses the one I think most about, even after 10years is the one that was 'normal' and the only girl I ever carried - shouldn't matter, but does.
At the same time, I am not defined by my MCs, and still think I am v lucky to have healthy sons and to not ever have gone through the heartbreak of a late loss.

pacific, that's right. my mum said you weren't 'pregnant' til you'd missed two periods and then you went to the doctors. perhaps all these digital pregnancy tests set people up for some unnecessary heartache.

I knew I was pg with my son when I was 3+4 if you see what I mean! My period wasn't due. On the day my period was due I felt like I'd been pregnant for ages.

Oh, curse the testing before missed period... recipe for heart ache!

Just reread the OP and apart from everything else having been said here just feel the need to add: YANBU, of course .

the fact the some people may not feel as distraught by losing a baby at an earlier date rather than a later date is not a free pass for anyone to make that assumption about anyone else. I know how distraught I was by not getting pregnant after each IVF and that was grieving for a child that didn't even exist!

People have said to me (on more than one occasion) that they couldn't imagine loving an adopted child - my response now (usually with a nice smile) "yes but the fact that you don't have the imagination for it doesn't mean it isn't possible".

I think the same thing holds here - just because some people may not be able to imagine your grief is at deep doesn't mean it isn't true.

Grief is not measurable . One persons devastation is another persons hiccup in life . Doesn't make one person right and one person wrong , it just makes two people different .

My son died when he was 14 mths old , I know that other people who have mc always feel weird talking to me about it as if they shouldn't be upset in comparison . But to me I do think in some ways it is a sadder thing . How much would these people have given to have had 14mths with their baby ?
On the other hand I know people who have lost grown up children , was that easier because they had them for 20 plus years ? No of course not .

Losing a future and having to deal with a different one is a shitty thing to have to face however long you have known about that future makes little difference . IMHO .

Feel very sorry for all the losses people on this thread have experienced and for your loss onemissing

Have only had v. early mcs myself and was half expecting that outcome. Don't know how people cope with a later loss.

Having said all that, difficult though it is sometimes, I TRY not to react badly when someone says something completely insensitive because I've been in a situation where (after a family loss - suicide very sadly) people have actually crossed to another pavement to avoid speaking to us...

Some people just aren't very tactful ... and owing to the discomfort of saying something in reaction to a sensitive situation - they get all hot and bothered, their words become scrambled and it all comes out wrongly. They are trying to say something to comfort you - and in doing so end up upsetting you even more. Or even worse, they put you in a situation where you end up trying to comfort them!

But far better that they say something than cross the road to avoid you. 'Tis sometimes best to focus on the intention behind the words rather than the words themselves ...

Hughes Syndrome causes 1 in 5 miscarriages/ PreE/ still birth/ IUGR/ plus a lot of none pregnancy things. The chance that you have it goes up with each pregnancy because it is a pattern.

Turners causes 1 in 10 miscarriages. Yes, women with Turners can't get pregnant, but I'm talking about Turner babies.

I have had 2 miscarriages. The first one I rarely think about which makes me feel guilty but the one I know I will always feel sad about is the one where I lost my baby's twin. It has definitely helped that my last pregnancy didn't end in miscarriage but I will always feel very upset about the loss. I don't care if that means some people think I have "unresolved issues."

I have a similar experience fab. I had 2 mc at 8 weeks that I barely think about. I was much younger and neither were planned. They were both hard but didn't really affect me in the long term. I had another one a few years ago at 13 weeks and it broke my heart, because that baby was very much planned I think, I don't know but it had nothing to do with now far along I was.

Losing a baby is awful whenever

there are some stories here. P

The trouble with all of the things people ay along the "it's for the best" lines is that people are trying to get you to count your blessings. And much as I am capable of counting my blessings, it's one of the least helpful thing to be told to do. I lost at five weeks and nine weeks and it wasn't so muchthe time that had elapsed that made the dfference, it was the hope that had started to build up that was dashed. So agree with the uselessness of comparing pain levels. No two people who embark on pregnancy have the same experience.

People should keep their stupid opinions to themselves.

Who is to say what is worse. Of course losing my 14 year old DD was worse for ME than an 8 week mc BUT I didnt have that comparision when I lost my 2nd pg at 8 weeks. It was horrible and I grieved. I was expected to get over it v.quickly and heard all the usual 'its for the best' 'there must have been something wrong with it' blah blah.

If we follow this all through to its 'logical' conclusion surely it means that losing a child aged 42 is worse than me losing my DD at only 14? No one would argue that would they? So why would it be worse losing a child at 36 weeks than at 22?

A loss is a loss, grief is grief and no one should tell you that yours is not legitimate.

I meant to say as well - its always true that there is someone out there who has had a 'worse' loss. Mothers whose entire families are slaughtered etc but how does that diminish our/your grief? It doesnt help and can only be said in order to shame us into not making a fuss.

chegirl, I could not agree more. There is always somebody worse off than oneself, but the I only have to deal with my situations.
So much as I think it can help to compare to others to put things into perspective, it does in no way diminuish the grief at the time.

Some of the deepest grief reactions I have withnessed have been by elderly people who lost grown-up/middle aged 'children' - age/gestation clearly does not matter for the sense of loss.

Still, different people have different mechanisms on how to deal with loss and grief and that is just the way it should be.

Message withdrawn

Dilemma, I'm so very sorry to hear about you losing your baby girl. Thank you for your post, actually it made perfect sense.

I should have been clearer in my original post - I work voluntarily for a baby loss charity, supporting people through the death of a baby - whether through "late miscarriage" (hate that term!), stillbirth or neo-natal death.

I facilitated a support group last night where I was asked to tell my story, and, when I'd finished, one woman, who'd lost her baby at full term, said "Losing a baby at 22 weeks is easier to understand though, isnt it", at which everyone else in the group nodded their assent.

Made me feel very hurt and alienated and left me wondering if I'm really cut out for this, if this is how people feel.

That's where my question was coming from.

So despite many of you suggesting (rightly) that such comments generally at least come from a wellmeaning place, in this instance that was sadly not the intention.

That must have been awful for you one

The woman may have just been too wrapped up in her own feelings of loss to be able to acknowledge yours. I may also be that she saw you as a 'worker' rather than a participant and so it was easier for her to express her opinions.

The other people in the group may have just been trying to be polite to the speaker?

Just trying to rationalise but still horrible for you.

If you came to a bereaved parents group that I was attending I cannot imagine anyone suggesting that your loss was insignificant in anyway.

one that must have been really hard to take.

My first DD died aged one month and one day.

My friend's baby died at 22 weeks.

Both named - both were people - both tragedies.

We talk about them by name - the only difference is that my DD is buried and has a birth certificate.

YANBU.

That was at best a rather thoughtless remark, even if or particularly as she had had a v sad loss as well .

I think one of the hardest things of being a peer supporter for anything is to put ones own experiences aside whilst still using them to empathise IYKWIM.

Maybe the motto of your group should actually be 'grief is not a competition' or something similar not as crass.

I was a telephone peer supporter for BLISS for a little while after DS2's premature delivery (he survived ) and even that was at times v emotionally draining.

Hat off to you for committing yourself to what you are doing after you had been through losing a baby yourself.

Oh onemissing, I can only assume they were so wrapped in their own grief they were rather lacking in the normal amount of empathy & common sense.

In your shoes I would have been shocked into silence, but maybe the right thing would be to question the validity of the comment - why is it easier to understand? I would be surprised if any of them could justify such a view if they gave it a second thought, & really everyone in their position needs to come to the awareness that grief is grief and everyone's response to it is different and valid.

I'm so sad to hear that all of you have lost little ones too.

Thank you so much for all of your replies, they really have lifted my spirits.

I had started to (irrationally) think that perhaps everyone who suffered later losses thought that, and that I was kidding myself to think that they would look to me for support when my experience in their eyes was so much less devastating. You lot have made me remember that that is not so for everyone.

I think you're right snorkie, I should have questioned her comment, but I felt so upset that I didn't feel I'd be able to do it in a measured way, and would have ended up putting too much of "my stuff" in the mix, which I try hard not to do at the groups, as I'm obviously there in a supportive role.

I felt close to jacking it all in last night, but I think I'm going to persevere after all your kind words...guess I'm just going to have to accept that some things just are going to get to me and find ways of dealing with that.

Thank you, thank you.

My daughter had Turners.

They told me she would die in the womb and a termination was advisable.

She lived for a month and a day. I know I've said that already but I can't just say a month, that extra day is really important, you know?

I have gone on to have 3 DC's - all healthy, all gorgeous. They all know about DD1 although she died before they were born.

one I think your ladies forgot you were suffering too and just thought of you as the facilitator (sp?)

Had you named your child?

I lost a baby at 34 weeks and it was shit just like it is at 8 or 22 or 41! I think people have no idea what to say and so talk rubbish. In my subsequent pregnancies I was in agony for every minute I never thought oh well it won't count until 34 plus. I think once you are pregnant you start planning and thinking about the baby from day one. I have never suffered a miscarriage but I have massive sympathy with women who do I I think at least I got to have my daughter and feel her move for the time I had her.
It is all agony and it is still after almost 4 years really really terrible.

PP, I know what you mean. I hold onto the length of time my baby lived for too. I've had so many doctors and MWs over the years try to fob her off as a miscarriage. Mum is brilliant, she always corrects them and points out she has a birth and death certificate. They change my para - my one pregnancy the notes are covered in changes because they'd write 0+2 and I'd change it to 1+1, they'd tell me off and change it... Last pregnancy they were so rude that PALS had to call a meeting to teach them how to talk to mothers who have lost previous babies! I've even had my baby dismissed as part of my medical history when I was in labour!

confuddled I chose a hospital for DD2 (4th child) which has a system of a small butterfly on the outside of the notes (denotes a previous death).

I would say, " I think you need to know..." and they would say - without exception - "We know."

It made it so much easier.

Thank you John Radcliffe, Oxford, and all your staff.