To having someone sit next to me on the train? [i know i am but im very :S about it]

[BritFish]

first of all, i know i'm being unreasonable, but i had a horrible experience a couple of months back that i was thinking about on the train today.

i was on a fairly empty train and a few people had got on, i hadnt bothered to move my bag because id judged there to be just enough seats, which there were, just.
this doddery old bloke comes up and asks me to move my bag so he can sit down. i thought fair enough, and just went back to my book.

needless to say, this old bloke started whispering awful sexual advances in my ear and letching down my top, and after the next stop loads of people got on so i was unable to move to even stand up without disturbing a group of ladies with their pushchairs

i had to squeeze past him as i got to my stop and he put his hand on my arse.

so now, i put my bag on the seat beside me and it bloody stays there.
the only people i will let sit down are people who ask me with a smile and look like they arent going to me to much bother.
pregnant women and students mostly!

im being very unreasonable i know, but would like to hear any other experiences so i can at least feel im not the only one being unreasonable and overly nervy!

Not unreasonable at all - perfectly understandable that you'd be nervous.

I know there's no point going down the "you should / could have.." route, but if you are unlucky enough to be in such a situation again - I certainly hope not - then stand up and say loudly "How DARE you say to me, sir. Get OUT of my way!"

don't worry about disturbing other people! They'd hardly blame or judge you for it!

Well, your feelings are understandable. Most of us have had similar experiences on public transport and it is horrible. But I'm surprised that you say you won't let sit down people who don't fit your criteria - does that mean, if they ask you to move your bag (without smiling or looking botherless) you'd say no? If so, you may find you soon get some other unpleasant experiences to add to the one you've already had - you are not, after all, entitled to use that seat as a handbag rest.

Sorry if I'm sounding harsh - I'm really sympathetic to how unsettled you must feel after that bad experience - but it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people guard seats with their bag. If they don't move it WITHOUT being asked, once it is obvious that the carriage is filling up, I do see it as part of the lack of common courtesy that pervades public life, I'm afraid.

So yes, YABU, but poor you and I hope you start feeling more settled soon.

I understand.

I was 'tickled' in a very inappropriate manner as a wee girl while travelling on a train. This was by the driver. Looking baCK, I now realise why I was so uncomfortable at the time about it - he was basically feeling me up. There were adults around, but noone did anything.

SInce then, I hate anyone sitting next to me.

Sadly, it happens to lots of girls and women - bloody rotten.

Best solution I heard is to stand up and announce really loudly what is going on - apparently works a treat!

YABU to deny anyone a seat.

However I always sit in the aisle seat if the train will be busy & stand up to let people have the window seat, that way you always have an escape route. (Similar experience with annoying drunk a long time ago)

I'm sorry you had such an awful experience. It sounds horrible.

However, I think you are being a bit unreasonable. It is highly unlikely to happen again, and it really isn't fair to take up two seat, forcing people to ask you to move your bag.

I think perhaps you should think about what you would say if you were ever in an uncomfortable position again.

Once when I was on a very crowded tube, someone put their hand up my skirt. I worked out who it was, looked directly at them and said very loudly "take your hand out of my skirt and stop touching me". Everyone around us turned a looked, and took a step back, leaving him isolated. Unfortunately, we then pulled into a station, and he ran off before he could be stopped.

Sorry, not driver - conductor.

That's really horrible - you must have fet very trapped.

Rather than being nervy though, I think I'd try and take control by thinking hard about what to do if such a thing ever happened again .....

I got touched up on the bus once, and I just said, very loudly - GET your hand off my bum -lots of people stared at the bloke, and he moved away and got off next stop.

Yes, bags on seats are a bugbear of mine, it's just rude.

You obviously had an unpleasant experience, but whenever I travel on an empty-ish train or late at night when there's drunks about, I stand up until I'm happy there's a seat next to someone un-barmy.

My mum got groped on a train in India by the bloke behind her. He kept putting his hand under the seat back and touching her bum. Each time he did it she moved further forward in her seat until she was on the edge of the seat, then next time the hand came through she lifted up, moved her backside right back and walloped down on his arm really hard. Everyone on the bus heard the yelp of pain.

It is unreasonable to block the seat if people are standing, but you did have a horrid experience. Maybe take the aisle seat, and move to let someone into the window seat if it fills up, so that you don't have to squeeze by anyone to get off.

That said, if I was standing, your bag was on a seat and you didn't move it voluntarily I wouldn't know what was behind it, would think you rude and selfish and would insist you move your bag/move it myself

Yes, they rely on their victim being too shocked to say anything, don't they? This feeling like we can't make a scene That's what they bank on, it's how they are able to become so bold!

So always, always speak out, loudly. Draw the maximum attention to it! It's the only hope we have of stopping this sort of thing, or at least reducing it - if they always get confronted.

It's amazing how many times you hear of women being touched on a crowded bus / train and not saying anything. It's really sad that they feel they can't yell out. They aren't doing anything wrong or embarrassing! There's no reason to sit / stand there and take it!

What a horrible experience, no wonder you're wary.

I've been commuting for 15 years now and luckily nothing like this has ever happened to me. I hope that if it did I would find it in me to shout at the top of my lungs and let everyone know what a dirty old bugger he was. But it's easy to say that when it's not actually happening to you.

I do think though that it's unreasonable to dictate who sits next to you on the train. Obviously some nutters look like nutters, but you can't always judge a book by its cover. If someone denied me a seat on the train because I didn't smile at them as I asked for it, I'd be mightily pissed off. People aren't going to automatically know why you're cautious, and will just think you're being rude.

heqet - you are right. I think it's a thrill for them - as if you and them are "in it" together, or they feel powerful. Don't let them !

How about thos seats at the end of the carriages (2 long ones, fairly high up)?

Gosh this reminds me of something that happened a long while back..I was on a crowded tube a guy was quite close to me (to be expected) then he promptly began to rub himself up against me!! not obviously.. but I could feel him moving !!..we came o the next stop and more people got on..more of an excuse for him to get even closer...at the time I was wearing stilletos (way back when i could spend the whole day in them no probs)...I stepped back and grinded my pointed heel into the top of his foot..never saw a person move so fast on a crowded train in my life! ..I completely understand your experience..I tend to sit on outside seats...

Oh, that's horrible. Most trains have single seats, often near the end of the carriage - can you try to find those? Or when you get on, choose to sit by someone who doesn't scare you?

Me too, Mutt, on the Northern Line. To be fair, I think the bloke who felt me up thought he was feeling up his girlfriend as the train was so crowded, but a very loud: "Excuse me, I think you'll find that's MY leg you're touching" made the whole carriage snigger and he was mortified and I hope won't do it again.

I had a nasty groping experience on a bus in Rome - worse because I was travelling with and talking to my dad at the time. I don't speak much Italian and so I didn't react at all. However, I don't feel remotely traumatised by that experience - I chose not to react because there was nothing I could effectively have done that wouldn't have made my poor dad feel awful.

You can't occupy empty seats with a bag. It's rude and it enrages people. Me, for starters. Back in the days when she commuted to London, my mother dealt with a persistent bag saving offender by assuring him, in her cut-glass accent, "It is bums what save seats, not bags". She was right.

So your choices are to try get over the admittedly nasty incident, or stand up when someone wishes to sit next to you or stop travelling by train.

Or use the Circle/District Line which is a lot less sociably designed - there are some single seats in the middle of carriages with solid panels on both sides. The overground is better for avoiding pervs too - must be all the fresh air natural light coming in

yadnbu - i had a similar experience when i was only 17yrs old , i was on a bus & an old smelly man sat beside me drinking a can of beer , i was sat in the window seat & he sat on the aisle seat so i was trapped . he told me he was not going to let me off at my stop & he was taking me home to his house , i tried to ignore him but he kept saying disgusting things to me & would not move to let me pass , the bus was almost empty & i kept trying to catch the drivers eye iykwim , in the end the driver saw me crying in his rear view mirror & pulled the bus over & asked me if i was OK . i ran off the bus & walked the rest of the way home . i have never used public transport since then as it still makes me nervous .

Horrible for you, but yes, YABU.

Leaving you bag on the seat is extremely rude. If you are uncomfortable, then you should stand.

Er YABU, but can understand why.

I think you may need to look up the definition of "needless to say" as used in your OP though!

I'm sure that was just horrid for you, but you can't refuse to move your bag.

I'm afraid if you refused to move it for me i would lift it and put it onto the floor.

i know im being unreasonable, i am. i feel better knowing im not the only one though.
i dont really get any wierdos wanting to sit by me at the moment, and you're right, it is rude to save the seat, but i do move it if asked nicely. very petty of me i know, and if its a crowded train il give it up to whoever asks really....except someone with a beer can in their hand.
and generally, when people do ask, theyre nice [lot of students on my trains usually] i havnt refused someone yet! apart from a guy who was drunk and reeking and there was another double empty space close by.

if the carriage is half empty, do you still put your bags on the floor? i wouldnt think that was rude...is it?

runnybottom: sorry im daft, i get so annoyed at people not writing 'your' and 'you're' correctly but i use daft phrases improperly all the time. like 'literally'

YANBU to feel that way, how horrible .

YABU to feel that you have the right to decide whether someone is allowed to sit on an empty seat next to you, on a busy train. The only thing you can do, if you don't like the look of them is to move yourself.

I don't like sitting next to people I don't know on the train, either, but I wouldn't dream of putting my bag on an empty seat on a busy or almost full train whilst in was in the station.