to think that 'training' days should be abolished?

[Northernlurker]

Now I do not mean that teachers shouldn't get any further training - clearly they should - but I think these extra five days should stop being distinguished from the rest of the pupil holidays and shouldn't be the free for all they are at the moment.

If you have children at various schools they can all be at various dates - which is hard for anybody - sahp or wohp - to keep track of.

Some schools do things which are just plain weird - dd1 goes back to school after Easter for two days then has a training day then back to school for the rest of that week then the following week is at school for four days before having another training day - which by the way the school calendar records as being for A-level moderation. I presume that isn't the only thing going on then though.

In addition I know of another school where the head arranged for all staff to do some evening training sessions instead so that they had the days designated as training days on the school calendar as holiday instead. Now of course they had put the time in, no question of that (one of my friend's was a teacher there) but I think the majority of parents would have been pretty pissed off to know about it nonetheless - and I know that's not logical but I would have been the same. I think the Head thought that too actually as she told the staff to try and keep it quiet!

I would prefer not to know when my children's school were doing their training. I'd just like 5 extra days added to the holidays with no comments and no random days in the middle of terms. This should be standard across the LEA and thus make life easier for teachers, parents and particularly parents who are teachers!

AIBU?

No you are certainly no BU. This teacher training thing drives me up the wall. A bank holiday monday becomes a monday tuuesday and wednesdy off, and then of course that is in addition to the half term week. We have two half term type weeks in each term now. It's disruptive and inconvenient and sorry but I dont see any benefit/improvement in standard deriving from this training.

YABabitU. INSET days are used to inform/train staff of/on the latest government initiative or a recent ofsted recommendation or maybe for GCSE/A-level moderation or curriculum planning/tweaking etc... These cannot all be addressed at one specific time of year (e.g. added on to summer hols)as the government gumpf exciting initiatives come to the school throughout the year.

However, I do think schools within an LEA should agree on commen INSET days to avoid the situation where one of your kids is off and another not etc. This could also help with training costs, as schools could share training etc...

Larks - I don't want them all added to one holiday. I can see that's not helpful. I don't mind 1/2 term being 6 days - just wish that it was the same 6 days across the area and that you could therefore talk about 'the holiday' instead of the 'holiday' plus the 'training' day.

I liked it last year when our school saved them up and gave us an extra week in the May half term.

So if a child who has a life-threatening nut allergy starts in September, the epipen training for staff will have to wait until July so as not to inconvenience working parents?

YABU

Totally agree that they should be fixed within the LEA.

It is madness having different training days at different schools, especially if you have more than 1 kid in different schools.

I reckon that's fair enough then Northernlurker. YANBU! As a teacher, I think I would prefer the INSETs to be either the last day or first day of term, actually the first day would be best.

Blimey Ledodgy! Do you have any idea what the staff did in that week, I don't think I could handle a whole week of training - it'd make me feel like I was back in school

if they have to have them it's nice that not all schools have the same days as then you can do things with dc that are normally very busy in the holidays without the crowds. BUT

Eddas when I worked in a school (worked in two, one junior and one secondary) the training days consisted of conferences/training in the morning, and then people could go home in the afternoon if they wished.

They weren't particularly arduous. Lunch was provided. Was about 4 hrs work tops per day.

Eddas, not gonna mob you I promise but - INSET days aren't all about getting up to date with our own stuff but being trained on new stuff. Most teachers do put in time in the hols - not just planning, but often coursework catchup for the lazy arses less motivated students and school trips etc... If INSET was to be moved into the hols, I would be demanding overtime rate it.

Eddas, training days were nicked from teachers' holidays in the first place.

Our LEA does generally have them on the same day on all schools so it helps with siblings in different schools.

Eddas The training days were holiday originally anyway. Teachers used to be contracted to work 190 days per year, it was upped to 195 in incorporate training days. As such they need to be in term time. Equally, things need doing across different times of year, there would be no point moderating during the holidays after the exams for example would there! FYI, on our training days we are training/working the exact same length as a school day.

If training days were to be held in the holidays (unfeasible due to the nature of the training as previously mentioned) then they would need to be paid over and above current salaries.

Of course, if people don't want us to learn about e-safety, or safeguarding etc then that's fine...it's only their kids we teach...

Eddas you are right to run away quickly. On training days I was always in school from 8 until 5 same as any other day. If you want outside speakers to come in you need to have the day when they can come in not in holidays as they too have other commitments then. Moderation days are there to meet exam boards deadlines.
Try doing it for a year - your opinion will change!

And also support staff need training too....it used to be a real headache trying to organise childcare for Inset days as most of the support staff's kids were in the same school So we had to pay for the privilige of being trained.

But its a government directive to train, so it has to be done during term time, because trying to coordinate the availablitity of staff during the holidays just would not work. It needs to be during term time when they have a contractual commitment to be on the premises.

And also remember that staff are not actually paid for the holidays. So to ask them to come in during them for training and pay for childcare would be ridiculous.

well I was thinking of primary schools not secondary which I would think is a whole different thing.

I know i'll get flamed plus lots of people disagreeing and as I said I do realise teachers work hard. My step-sis is a teacher, year 1, and was marking books whilst we were all sitting around chatting on a sunday afternoon. I also know dd's teacher doesn't appear to have a lunchbreak ever as she's changing the class' reading books everyday(again year 1)

I do agree with nl though that having them on random days midweek is odd and would be very annoying. Luckily dd's school seem to attach them to holidays, like today which would be the first day back after half term but is an inset day.

why are there so many? we didn't have them iirc.

it's very hard to get babysitters for odd days if you work too.

"Surely they could go into work for one day of the holidays to keep up to date? I'm fairly sure even on a training day the teachers are only in school a few hours training so it wouldn't amount to a whole missed day in the holidays anyway."

INSET days were taken from teachers leave. Teachers have 195 days of directed The number of days of education (190) that children get is exactly the same as prior to the introduction of Baker days.

www.schoolzone.co.uk/resources/articles/career/legal_issues/inset_day.asp

Teachers work damm hard on INSET days. For example they do moderation of coursework, curriculum planning, departmental meetings as well as general training. It is not practical for every school in the country to have inset days on the same day. Often a trainer has to be booked for a day. For example an external trainer is brought in to teach restraint training.

Teachers find INSET days an inconvience. Many teachers also have children who need childcare. At least people who do not work in schools can take a day off. Families were both parents work in schools often have a total nightmare.

Prehaps there are some mumsnetters who just do not want to spend time with their children.

Oh fgs, how many more times is this old chestnut going to be wheeled out?

INSET days are taken from teacher's holidays already, OK? And they need to be flexible in order to serve particular schools' staff training needs. Therefore they cannot all be on the same days. And, for the record, staff training is done for the benefit of the staff involved, and therefore the students. Convenience for parents does not feature as a prime concern.

See above southesatastra, when I was at school we didn't have them but had more hols. It was Kenneth Baker who brought them in... "Baker Days"

We had Baker Days at school...same principle really so this isn't a new thing so I don't get the uproar! And that was at private school where my parents actually had to pay for my education, but I don't remember complaints.

gherkin - I din't especially refer to working parents. I think the current system is a pita for ALL parents. I also didn't say it should be at one time in the year. With regard to your particular example though - that is the sort of training which I think should be delivered as soon as needed 'on the job' just like in any other workplace. I sincerely hope schools don't wait for the next training day!

"Prehaps there are some mumsnetters who just do not want to spend time with their children"

Perhaps there are some mumsnetters who are a tad touchy and unable to debate in a reasonable and mature manner.

I love training days. School without kids in, bliss.

We used to twilight - 6 twilight sessions of 3 hours each equalled 3 training days, plus two days at the end of the holidays. Twilight sessions are extremely inconvenient when you have kids, especially BF ones exploding boobies emoticon.

My Mum's school takes 4 training days at the end of August, then a further one throughout the year.

I don't think it is practical to make them all the same as every school has different training needs - and external trainers need to be booked!

Quite, and if each school did them on the same day how would the external speakers get everywhere at once?!