to think that 'training' days should be abolished?

[Northernlurker]

Now I do not mean that teachers shouldn't get any further training - clearly they should - but I think these extra five days should stop being distinguished from the rest of the pupil holidays and shouldn't be the free for all they are at the moment.

If you have children at various schools they can all be at various dates - which is hard for anybody - sahp or wohp - to keep track of.

Some schools do things which are just plain weird - dd1 goes back to school after Easter for two days then has a training day then back to school for the rest of that week then the following week is at school for four days before having another training day - which by the way the school calendar records as being for A-level moderation. I presume that isn't the only thing going on then though.

In addition I know of another school where the head arranged for all staff to do some evening training sessions instead so that they had the days designated as training days on the school calendar as holiday instead. Now of course they had put the time in, no question of that (one of my friend's was a teacher there) but I think the majority of parents would have been pretty pissed off to know about it nonetheless - and I know that's not logical but I would have been the same. I think the Head thought that too actually as she told the staff to try and keep it quiet!

I would prefer not to know when my children's school were doing their training. I'd just like 5 extra days added to the holidays with no comments and no random days in the middle of terms. This should be standard across the LEA and thus make life easier for teachers, parents and particularly parents who are teachers!

AIBU?

Yes, I agree that they should be tagged onto the end of holidays where possible and that is what happens here. Parents consider them as just another holiday day for their child (or they should)

I think the move towards the development of school clusters and federations will make life easier - more shared training within a cluster (usually the local Secondary School and the Primaries that tend to feed into it). But of course the training requirements may well be very different so it won't always work. Inset Days are set by the LA here, so are the same across the county - but there is a degree of flexibility where you can't book the trainer you want on the allocated day.

Regarding training being effective - yes of course it should be and with that point in mind can anybody reassure me that said training is audited and reviewed to ensure it is relevant and applied to school life?

Training is always audited and reviewed.

We are operating a mixture of twilight sessions and whole INSET days.

Twilights can be limited in their effectiveness to be honest.

During term time I tend to work on average a 14-15 hours a day. I just don't have time to do an after school training session, keep up to date with everything else and remain the calm teacher that you want in front of your children. When twilights happen I tend to only be giving it 50% of my attention and am usually too tired.

I agree that more effort should be needed to keep them standardised across schools though.

bloody hell! Just how much paperwork do we really need to have in teh public sector?

Gather round everyone- I have a secret to tell...

Some teachers have children too

Ergo, they will also have childcare issues (especially if all schools take INSET on the same day

And they can't take annual leave to look after them, even when they are sick

Personally, I'm all for getting rid of them so I can have an extra 5 days' holiday a year.

Northernlurker - yes, training should be tailored to meet both the teacher's needs and the school's needs; it should slot in with the overall school improvement and development plan. The governing body should be reviewing the effectiveness of training/professional development regularly, and should be able to see how it helps the school to improve.

"Regarding training being effective - yes of course it should be and with that point in mind can anybody reassure me that said training is audited and reviewed to ensure it is relevant and applied to school life?'

Yes. I can and it is.

And, I think it would be nice if some teachers also appreciated that working parents also work hard and have long working hours.

The comment further up this thread that "the convenience of parents isn't high on the priority list" jarred a little. It's not about convenience - it's about having to take time off which has a wider impact on one's colleagues and career prospects. Especially if you're a single parent who can't share the load.

I think most teachers do appreciate that tbh Belle. I acknowledge I work long hours but no longer than most other professionals. I would also not expect them to do a long training session after a day in the office knowing they than had at least another 3-4 hours of work to do at home. I would be more than happy of they have up their holiday to do training, as I have done.

Some teachers are single parents as well. What would you have a better system?

Anyway I am not a teacher and I am quite lucky in that I can often change my days as I am ICT technician. There is no way I would work the hours that teachers do.

wastwinset - good answer and I'd be happy to give up days of my holiday for training if I got as much holiday as teachers do .

Reallytired perhaps the teachers could train across schools instead of closing the entire school. So, say, two teachers could go from each school in the LEA per day/week/whatever and perhaps locum teachers could be used to fill in for the odd days? That way, there would less disruption and teachers could still be trained?

I accept that I know nothing about teaching as a profession or how teachers are trained but that seems achievable to me.

BDSM, that's actually a great idea; but the way it is done now is cheaper- everybody gets training on the same day (usually from an in-house trainer), no cover teachers are needed and schools do not have to pay the course fees for each teacher.

I acknowledge we are very lucky to have the holidays we do, which is why I have absolutely no problems with giving some of them up to train and get up to date with prep and marking.

I have no interest in trying to make out that I am hard done by and work harder than anyone else in the world. I have a great job for which I am well rewarded both in pay and perks.

Your idea in your post of 21:14 sounds like a nightmare tbh but maybe that is because I am tired.

By larks35 Mon 22-Feb-10 15:55:07
Blimey Ledodgy! Do you have any idea what the staff did in that week, I don't think I could handle a whole week of training - it'd make me feel like I was back in school.

No, No idea we buggered off to Cornwall.

Who is going to pay the salary of the supply teachers? Who would pay the costs of travelling. Also many of the days are used for whole school business like deciding policies, deciding what set your darling should be in, moderation of coursework and sorting out resources.

Anyway if your children had an inset today then it has been tacked on to a holiday.

BelleDameSansMerci teachers have already given up five days of their holidays. Prior to Baker days teachers had more holiday.

Ours was crap today: I would far rather have been teaching.

Using supply staff would be the ideal and most sensible way to go about it. But no one wants to pay for an extra teacher.

It's difficult.

When I was a SAHM, I liked inset days on random Mondays as it meant that it was a good day to sneak into Legoland.

At my school, and my DSs' school, we have our training days at the start of each term, as well as a few twilight sessions. I don't think the parents notice, although they are marked on the school calendars.

BelleDameSansMerci - but often supply or cover supervisors do not do that great a job and the kids may as well not have been in school. I had to take a day off to look after my sick son. Sent in cover for my 4 classes that day, inclduing a double lesson. When I saw them on my return they had completed what I thought amounted to 10 minutes work and had therefore wasted the lesson time, which now I have to catch up with them Inset days covered in whatever way (which would be very expensive using supply to cover say the 70 teaching staff in our school) would be wasted time. But useful childcare I suppose...

I'm doing exam Inset on a Saturday next month, I shan't get paid for it, I have to travel to London and so get one less day with my kids, but I'm doing it for the benefit of the kids I teach and my professional development. Like others have said, there are so many new initiatives introduced during the year you can't do it one go. In our school each inset day has been tagged onto half terms and holidays which helps I think. Though as a part-timer I have to sometimes go in on days I'm not contracted to do so that I get my quota of prefessional devleopment, this means I have to sort out childcare too. Swings and roundabouts I guess!

Reallytired it was a suggestion, that's all. I don't have the joy of inset days just yet but I hear plenty about them from my friends!

I'm sorry if I've upset or offended you, that wasn't my intention.

My main gripe with inset days is what looked like (from an observer) the blithe assumption that mummy is at home baking all day so it doesn't matter if the children are off school or not. It just seemed like some 1950s view of the world. I realise now that this isn't the case but I still think there has to be a better way to do this.

The reality is that you need to have a trained workforce, and that training has to take place during working hours.

There are many things that take place during inset day, some of which are not school specific but what any large employer would provide, such as fire and safety training.

School specific training would be child protection (mandatory every three years), first aid incl things like epipen training.

That's before you get down the the brass tacks of curriculum stuff.

A lot of staff training does take place after school on a voluntary basis, or during lunchtime meetings. For example, I run a remedial basic ICT training for older members of staff. It doesn't get time during INSET, but does happen. Schools run induction sessions for new members of staff, and these will run on an as-needed basis, eg after school or during the lunch break. IME although these are for new members of staff, they are open to all for anyone who feels they need a top up.

Insets are really for whole school issues, and are very valuable. I have never been on an inset day that is less that the normal school day, and every minute of the day is planned out with training activities (no time for personal planning time).

Ours so far have all been the first day back so instead of one week off then back on monday they had that monday off and went back on tuesday. It makes no difference to me as I am a SAHM, the day is alot easier when she is not is school but I can see it would be difficult to keep finding childcare if I needed to.