to think that if we cannot stop people saying offensive things, maybe we should start trying to change our reactions to them so we are not so effended.

[psychomum5]

sorry, yet another thread on offending/offensive terms etc.

I am just thinking after being on the OCD thread (and this is not be getting at it in any way.......it was just a thought while on it IYGWIM).

I had CBT councelling a while back now for driving phobia. It touched on my own OCD tendencies and my issues with my mother and aunt, unfortunately the counceller was being paid by the insurance company to only deal with the car accident tho so we couldn't delve in properly to all my other 'problems', but she did give me one fabulous bit of advice which I want to pass on.

I can never change the person who upsets me or offends me, but I CAN change how I react to them, and how I take what they say.

soooo

as much as my aunt gets to me, it is down to me to either let her, or just realise that she is her, is never going to change, and so let it go, giving her no more power over me.

The biggest job it putting into working practise tho.

I fail at times.............but that doesn;t change the fact that it is sound advice, and something maybe we all should try.

We are NEVER going to get away with being offended. Each and every day we are going to say and do something that to someone out there, is offensive.

in that same way, that someone is going to do the same......do or say something offensive themselves.

so maybe we should all just live and let live....

mind you, MN and AIBU would probably cease to function wouldn;t it.

maybe ignoring me would be best then

sound advice, i have taken to avoiding certain people if at all possible both on MN and in real life.

it works for me

I know what you're saying, but there are some lines that you don't cross, like calling someone a spazz/ retard or any racist/ homophobic names. That's cos they're uniformly offensive and shouldn't be discretionary on that basis.

I think wrt reacting to people annoying you, then it is sound advice, but I will always remain utterly offended when someone calls a black person a n.....

always. It is utterly unacceptable and should continue to be challenged rather than me thinking "well, praps I'm just uptight"

I completely agree with you. I find the problem is that I tend to slip up at certain times of the month .

Most of the time I just let any comment slide off but there are times when the most innocuous remark has me boiling with rage!

I do think sometimes there are posts on here when people are very over sensitve but, of course, they may be feeling hormonal or sensitive too!

Oh, and I think it helps if you don't really care what people you don't know think of you I genuinely couldn't care less about the opinions of strangers.

psychomum Aaah... but your enlightenment has come through therapy... generally when you tell someone to "get some fucking therapy" they get all uppity about it! You are right of course though.

What's OCD...?

I agree with the others but it is also a good plan to try and desensitise yourself when things aren't generally offensive, otherwise one does tend to spend far too much time being upset/offended over probably innocent remarks.

Although it is a real skill to be able to change your responses to family members - they have inside knowledge on how to push your buttons, and if they are of a mind to upset you, it's much easier for them to do it than an internet fairy. So well done for managing to deal with that!

It depends on the context. If I say I don't like a term or phrase, and call someone a homophobe/racist/sexist in response, and they get upset by that then they are the one who has been offended.

I was not offended by their racism - I was just pointing out the fact that they are being racist. So by your logic they should learn to cope with being offended by my comments.

I think the whole 'you are too easily offended' line is just a way of having a go at left wing people. Right wing people are offended by all manner of things - single mothers, immigrants, the EU. Maybe right wing people should stop being so over-sensitive.

I agree with MillyR

however, some words are offensive and shold be robustly challenged , as are some attitudes

certain things i would let go, but not others.

i thikn that when people hurt and upset you every time you have contact with them, then if cutting them out is nota possibility, then certainly changing your reaction to them is very healtjy.. but that is different to letting
racist terms slide

i would have to question if i would wnat contact/friendhsip with someone who was racist/offensive, used terms that were abhorrent about minorities or indeed anyone

Hmmm.

Thing is, when we are "offended" by something, it does, initially, sound as though it is just an individual, personal, emotional response to some language/speech act.

So, in theory, you can, indeed, choose to change the way "you feel" about it.

But

that is rarely what the experience of being offended is actually all about, is it?

We are usually "offended" by something that, actually tells us something about what another/other people think about things that are actually often not about us at all, but about others. So there is already a non-individual component to it.

And, in being "offended", even if we don't vocalise our feelings of offence, we are seeking outwards, beyond ourselves, into an arena of judgment, where others might find this thing offensive.

I think "offensive" often has this communal quality, so its often moral and political things that are "offensive". And that makes it impossible to solve by just changing your, personal attitude. If you do choose not to be offended, in effect you've changed your political/moral position on an issue. So you haven't simply chosen not to let something get to you, you've adopted a certain stance, in response to the speech act you previously thought offensive.

And then there's the whole issue about where it's right to be "offended", and all the things that wouldn't have happened if people hadn't taken "being offended" a step further, and turned them into communal, political actions.

Eg. If Rosa Parks, and everyone else, had simply decided to change the way they felt about sitting at the back of the bus, or standing; to not be offended, to not take it personally, but to enjoy the fact they were on the bus, going to wherever.

That would not have been a very helpful strategy.

ah yes, now the racist and homophobic and disablist offending terms I didn;t mention......sorry.

they are of course offensive temrs that should not be ignored....and I apologise for not having those in my OP. The thing is tho, they are pretty much a given for being upsetting, and no one ever says that you are being unreasonable for being offended at that.

I was touching more on the lighter comments....as always in OPs tho, there is always a deeper part not thought about which can open a whole other debate.

Skihorse, yes, I did indeed get enlightenment thru therapy

I think that when someone says something they know to be offensive, or says something offensive through ignorance, it is always right to correct them. They are showing lack of manners and consideration and that is not acceptable.

HOWEVER, sometimes a little lattitude is needed. OCD, Depressed, Going Crazy, mental etc. These are terms that are often used in general conversation and there is no intention to insult/offend. It's actually bad manners then to jump all over that person when you do actually know the context in which they are using it.

There is a thread about our dear Trinity where she's chosen a name that one person objected to. OK I don't think gratuitous swearing is big or clever, but I know what Trinity means and for that reason I'm not offended. She's frankly entitled to drop the F-word if she likes..

There was a rash of C-word names and uses not that far back, and I did find that offensive.

I find it reflects more poorly on the person that coins the offensive term. If however it's a tongue in cheek comment, then it's a little much to jump all over someone when given a little lattitude it's not THAT bad.

We are unmoderated, so need to have the ability to moderate ourselves. If someone seriously oversteps the line, it needs to be said, otherwise, we are all grown ups and being overly pedantic will discourage us all, and knock the intelligent banter we all love on the head.

animula, I'm not sure that not reacting (in a way that causes you distress rather than reacting in a way that changes things) to someone being offensive is the same as changing one's atitude and not actually being offended.

I suppose my view is that you can protect yourself by not allowing yourself to be unnecessarily impacted by the comments of other people.

Did any of that make sense?!

yanbu and yabu
you might be able to but I will always be offended to people who are racist/disablist and homophobic, I will react, that is me.

argh....

MY op was a tad simplistic wasn;t it.

ok, this will make for interesting debate tho maybe, and we can all learn (hopefully).

and I have just noticed my typo in the title too.

2shoes, that was the part I didn;t cover.....I did notice a little further down, it has been pointed out.

hence why I now realise my OP was a little simplistic.

TBH, I was thinking more along the lines of people making throw-away comments about OCD, going mental, 'oh I am so depressed', swearing, the use of C and F words......even, in my case, I hate seeing the word for baby flies......cannot even type it, but I know this and so cannot take it offensive when people use it, cos it isn;t offending to others.....just me (and yes, I accept I am wierd).

there is always something tho that people miss in OPs, but again, it can make for interesting debate, and also, can teach us the terms that are really offensive and so should NOT be used, and the terms that, in all honesty, we should try and just let go and ignore.

if the above makes sense that is.

People have every right to be offended by perceived racist/homophobic/disablist posts...

....but not by being extremely offensive back, that gets them nowhere, and just makes them look like incapable idiots.

Learning to pick your battles, and mixing tolerance and intervention, getting incited to action, and acknowledging limitation, recognising when to be "offended" and when to hold back, is a real life-skill, isn't it?

I do wonder if I'll ever get it right ... . There was a nice article in the Guardian about vegetarianism this Saturday that had me thinking about all this ... . I find being a parent so hard, sometimes, because it does make me wonder where my own boundaries are ... .

'And then there's the whole issue about where it's right to be "offended", and all the things that wouldn't have happened if people hadn't taken "being offended" a step further, and turned them into communal, political actions.'

Well said animula. I come from a time and a background where wife and child beating from the dominant male of the household was accepted practice, it was called keeping your house in order.
I agree that education and explanation are the best ways to attempt change, but sometimes the fuel is righteous indignation. So when I meet stupidity of thought and ignorance or downright malice, I will be offended and challenge it as best I can.

Isn't it to do with some things being "globally" offensive, within the society that you live, and thus being offensive whenever used and in whatever context. (Like the "n" word). And they are offensive and that is that.

On the other hand there are things which people find offensive that you couldn't have predicted they would find offensive - and those are the things you need to accept and take on the chin, as they were not meant with harm, and only upset because of the recipient. IYSWIM.

A whole different thing from people deliberately being nasty to other people, which of course is aso always offensive. When people are deliberatly setting out to offend, even if they use words to do so that are not "globally" offensive.

Yes and then change comes about by a groundswell of feeling that actually, something isn't acceptable, so let's stop it.

good posts goblinchild and animula. this is the type of things that teach.....where we see what things are correct to be offended by, and why, and how education helps.

daftpunk, good point on not being offensive back. tis hard not to fall into that trap tho at times, especially when anger take hold!

ImSoNotTelling, yes, there are some globally offensive terms that are not even debatable.