...in hating the word 'expat'?

[vivasevilla]

Why do British people (not all) insist on calling themselves 'expats' when they choose to go and live abroad? They are, surely, immigrants, why not call themselves so? (is it possibly because they move abroad and then spend all their time in bars drinking 'cheap' gin and tonics, reading the Daily Mail and whinging about 'immigrants' and 'gangs of feral youth' in their own country while not bothering to learn the language of the country they have chosen to move to?)

I lived in Sierra Leone for 2 years and we were expats not immigrants because we were temporarily out of our country and had not permanently immigrated.

nigh How many of the Pakistanis in Blackburn are planning on staying merely a year or two and then returning to Pakistan, as opposed to possibly returning only on retirement? THe media certainly lead us to believe that while Eastern Europeans who come here to work may go home after a couple years, Pakistanis and Africans want to settle long-term.

Take your point about how they're used to imply different concepts no matter what the truth, though.

My mum is an immigrant to the UK and has been an expat to a bunch of other places.
'Expat brat' - now there's a phrase I hate...

When I first came to the UK, I think I identified more with the term 'Expat' (well, I joined a group called Expats Against Bush and went on protest marches and the like).

Now after 7 years I think of myself as an 'immigrant'. I'm not going anywhere, this isn't temporary, and I don't spend all my time seeking out other Americans or bitching about your peanut butter. I do think it can be hard to make friends here, but then again, making friends as an adult without children would probably be difficult anywhere. Now that I have DS, I'm meeting a lot more people. But my best mates over here are another American I met on an 'expat' message board right after I arrived and an Israeli woman I randomly met one day in the park.

I also like to remind people I'm an 'immigrant' when they start doing the 'they're taking our jobs' stuff around me. Helllllooooo! I've 'stolen' one of your men and one of your jobs!

Banging on about immigrants is just a cover for being a racist prick most of the time, IMVHO.

Am thoroughly confused what am I? ... I have lived here for five years, maintained my US citizenship and taken on British citizenship. I have married a Brit, had a baby (who also has dual citizenship) and live in an area where I am the token foreigner. I know only two other Americans one on a student visa and one, who like me, married a Brit (and she is a friend of my sister's, so knew her before she came here). I know lots of people from EU countries and the empire but don't actively seek out foreigners -- from where I'm from or other places.

I don't consider myself an expat or an immigrant, just a productive member of society -- but one who constantly has to tell people where she's from and why she's living over here....

Scout, I'd call you an immigrant

when i lived in london i called myself an expat-scot. i guess i was meaning that i was in london for a while but had no desire to be a londoner or english and i had every intention of coming home.

i think of ex-pats as being people who don't change their culture to the one they're living in (E.g. army familes, diplomats, people working for multinationals and banks) as well as people in spain who make no effort to be spanish.

immigrants on the other hand i think of as more permanent and who intend their children to grow up to be within the culture they join. e.g. if an 'expat' sent their children to school in spanish and intended that future generations would stay there then they would become 'immigrants'.

i've never refered to polish people in edinburgh as immigrants as i don't think most of them were..

I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one who is questioned on a regular basis as to "why in god's name would you want to live in the UK when you can live in the states?!?" Well, because my DH is British, he and his family all live here, we want to raise our family here, and I happen to love it here. We can't imagine ever moving to the states to live, so I'm here permanently and plan to get my UK citizenship sorted soon.

I do sometimes feel "apart" or "different" from lots of people here, simply because as soon as I speak, I find I'm marked as "the American" by some and it is uncomfortable. I have days where I just want to blend in with everyone completely. A friend did tell me (in jest obviously) that as soon as I get my British citizenship, I will automatically have an accent straight off of Eastenders. ah, if only....

yankncock - tell me more about peanut butter

Where is the OP

I grew up in three different countries round the world where we were most definitely expats - our time in each country was entirely dependent on my dad's contract but my family were always based in the UK and planned to come home (as we eventually did). There was no reading of the DM or drinking G&Ts. Are you sure you haven't been watching too much Eastenders?

I don't really use either term. I'd associate immigrant with someone actively applying for citizenship in a country (which I'm not). I'd use resident for anything official (or greencard holder), but generally I'd just describe myself as British. There is a British society here but I peeked at them once and I just couldn't quite see the point of hanging out with a group of people who had absolutely nothing in common except their nationality.

I rather like Bonsoir's 'globalised person' though

When I lived in a country where I felt pretty integrated and socialised almost exclusively with people from that country, I hated the term expat.

Now I live in a country where I have found it really difficult to integrate and make proper friends, and I really cannot make myself interested in all their really important cultural events. And I have met a group of really nice women from the UK and other countries, so I guess I AM an expat now

Oh BTW I mean expat in the stereotypical sense of someone who does not integrate into the society they are living in and sits around drinking tea with other British people moaning about the country they live in where nothing works or is as good as in the UK.

In the sense people are talking about here I am an immigrant - I imagine I'll live here for many years, though you never know.

Hm. I think I'm going to have to start using Anna's globalised person thing, as I don't think either term (immigrant or expat) applies to me. I was born in SA, but have always had a British passport (so technically GB citizen). When I left SA and arrived in GB, didn't go through any formal "emigration" from SA, or "immigration" into UK. Just kind of walked through security and passport control and Heathrow and ta dah! British resident.

I have integrated in some ways - my accent is a bizarre mix of both, have been educated in both countries, and use the slang of both countries (depending on context). I've been in the UK over a decade, lived in Scotland for a while (so I wouldn't consider myself English, particularly as I live in London now, which isn't particularly English itself), but am planning on leaving within the next few years. As for where I'll settle - no clue. DP and I have discussed moving to:

• Cape Town
• Israel
• France (he's French)
• The US and
• Mauritius (we were staring at a map of Africa and thought it would be nice. He refuses to consider Nigeria - unfair).

So yes, Globalised Person.

I don't get this whole confusion about what the terms mean. "Expat" is not smug and immigrant is not "derogatory". They just mean completely different things.

When I lived in Greece I was an immigrant there, I'm now and immigrant in Italy, but since I left my homeland to live somewhere else I am an expatriate from Britain.

It's simple etymology...

I think that the OP's view is just lazy. Yes some people do choose to move to places like Australia, NZ and Canada because they think they are "whiter" than England. They are racist idiots. That isn't however most people's motivation. They move because of jobs, marriage, to do something different/to see what it's like. Some are immigrants in that they move permanently and others are there temporarily, and are more properly temporary residents/workers. Both can be described as expats.

My family have moved to Canada. We are not yet immigrants, although we may choose to live here permanently (and are about to apply to do so, but more because living on a temporary work permit is very stressful). We haven't stopped being English, and I doubt that I will, although I love Canada and the West Coast way of life, and have made lots of friends here. But I see myself as an English person living in Canada. I don't know how other people describe me, but in a country mostly made of immigrant stock being called an immigrant is not a pejorative term. Sadly that's not to say there is no racism here, it just takes different forms.

I prefer the term ex-prat. We've lived in three countries so far and are moving in July to a fourth. The first one was very difficult to integrate with. Arabian men have difficulty talking to women, but when you persevere - obviously not in a pushy way, it was rewarding. I made friends with some of the women who worked on the till in our local supermarket. I spoke enough arabic to be able to communicate. when we lived in Thailand, I spoke enough Thai to get by, I never became friendly with another Thai woman though. In Switzerland, the majority of the people I know, I've met through dd's school and as the teaching language is English, that is the one we use.

I just thought that was what is was called. I'm from the US and we have been living and working in the UK for several years. I never gave it a thought as to being "smug" as someone put it. Just thought it was the word. Just like I call the thing I drive to work in, a "car". Maybe I should change my name....

I'm neither an expat or an immigrant...I have carved myself a unique little niche where I'm known by everyone as MadFurrinWomanWhoWavesFistsAtPeopleTryingToRunHerOverOnZebraCrossings.(in manner of native American Big Chief Sitting By the Water names....)

I do conjure up beige safari suits and overbearing colonial Henrys at the golf club in Honkers I suppose if I think about the word expat. Hadn't really thought of the permanence/non permanence bit at all, but yes, that makes sense.

Hmm, I think the OP needs to spend less time on the Costa del Crime.

Expats and immigrants are different things, as has already been suggested. They are not just different ways of saying the same thing.

Firstly, immigrants are usually more permanent. Secondly, the term normally implies a right to stay in the country concerned (either through citizenship or residency having been granted or being automatic (i.e. moving between EU countries)).

The term expat (I am one) implies a more temporary situation and many people who call themselves "expats" have no right to stay in the country they are in beyond their current employment arrangements. They tend to move around a lot more, fro country to country and intend to return home at some stage.

Being an expat is a great opportunity to see a lot of the world and experience different cultures and it's great if you get bored of staying in one place. However, to be fair a lot of expats dont learn the language fluently because 1) short term postings 2)don't need it for work.

We've been gin-swilling expats for 15 years.
In terms of the company DH works for, it means employees working temporarily outside of their base country with no plans to settle permanently in their current country of residence. It's a widely used and generic term and I'm a bit mystified as to why it could cause such ire.

I am an immigrant, I will am a permanent citizen. I speak the language (better than some of the locals, may I say )

I read the local paper, don't sit in bars drinking & bemoaning the status quo in the UK.

I have given to the community, I ran a playgroup on a voluntary basis for 2 years & I a part of the Governing council at my daughters school, which included several subcommittees.

We are not all as you describe. And you are making yourself sound pretty ignorant!

"is it possibly because they move abroad and then spend all their time in bars drinking 'cheap' gin and tonics, reading the Daily Mail and whinging about 'immigrants' and 'gangs of feral youth' in their own country while not bothering to learn the language of the country they have chosen to move to?"

Hmm. Well I consider myself an expat rather than an immigrant. We watch the BBC, hang out with English speaking people, and buy sausages and the Sunday Times.

On the other hand, no daily gin swilling for me, I have a FT job and am fully integrated with my Belgian colleagues. I try my hardest with the 2 local languages here.

And we have no real intention to go back to UK, though a move to another country may be on the cards.

Mauritius = not that nice to live...

I?m currently an expat because I haven?t immigrated anywhere but I might adopt globalised person! I also didn't choose to move here and don't read the DM but will concede to drinking G&Ts!

I don't live in my country, I'm def an expat as never stay anywhere more than 4 years, and move at the whim of my or dh's employer not by our own choice. I'm not an immigrant, my residency is in the UK and that's where I pay tax though haven't lived there for years.

Fwiw I don't drink g&t, don't read the dm, don't scour shops for marmite, have learned to speak the language of all the diff countries I've lived in fluently. I haven't immigrated to any of them though, that's for sure.

An expat lives somewhere temporarily; an immigrant lives somewhere permanently. What's the prob?

It's not all expats' fault if the term has been hijacked to have negative connotations.

Australian expats in London are so described, because they come over on a temporary visa.

I used to describe myself as an expat, then I got British citizenship and described myself as an immigrant - however now that I'm moving back home at the end of the year, I guess I'm back to being an expat...