...in hating the word 'expat'?

[vivasevilla]

Why do British people (not all) insist on calling themselves 'expats' when they choose to go and live abroad? They are, surely, immigrants, why not call themselves so? (is it possibly because they move abroad and then spend all their time in bars drinking 'cheap' gin and tonics, reading the Daily Mail and whinging about 'immigrants' and 'gangs of feral youth' in their own country while not bothering to learn the language of the country they have chosen to move to?)

I'm not an immigrant, I'm not applying for permanent residency or citizenship, I'm already citizen of 2 countries. We are here temporarily and will move wherever the work is.

I am an immigrant, not an ex-pat. Not decided (after 16 years ) whether I am going to apply for citizenship or not, not even 100% that I will stay here forever, but while I am here I am doing my best to fit in, I speak the language, I am involved in my local community, I don't sit around moaning with other Swedes.

Yeah, I think JeMe's situation is the proper definition of an expat - normally it's people like diplomats or people working on short term projects. But, I totally get what the OP is on about. They also tend to comment on articles about immigration in Britain going something like "These bloody immigrants are RUINING the country, them and NuLabour. Which is why I moved to Spain" and you sit there going "but then you're an immigrant too. Don't the Spanish get a say in this?"

I also agree with Morloth - English culture is difficult to crack. Despite living here for over a decade, most of my friends are actually dirty immigrants like myself.

Did you see the super ironic news item recently - the seriously anti-Immigration Australian MP has decided she's had enough, and is moving to the UK. Oh how I laughed.

She'll probably run for the BNP serenity

YABU - i was once an 'expat' and indeed was part of an expat community, mostly people who weren't staying long.

expat is the term we used to describe ourselves - to the Tawianese we would have been 'immigrants' or possibly 'migrant workers' or more ususally 'foreign teachers'. The mainland Chinese term Laowai is less polite.

so to describe immigrants and immigrants is not unreasonable. when you are an expat, you call youself an expat (it is for someone else in the country you are in to call you an immigrant)

language, as ever, depends on context.

though Georges Mikesh wittily observed in 'How to be an alien' that to the British, it doesn't matter where you are, the other nationality is the 'foreigner'.

I had a giggle at the thought of Pauline Hanson in the UK (especially London!) as well Serenity, I don't think she quite understands just how isolated Australia actually is from most of the world and it's problems. She is going to be much more seriously pressed to find somewhere all white and of the "quality" she seems to think she is.

Still, we won't mind seeing the back of her! All yours!

I wonder if they'd accept her? It may actually cause the BNP to implode "She's an immigrant? Yes, but she hates immigrants to Australia, but she wasn't born here, but she's crazy racist like us, but she could be taking an English Person's job, and no doubt she's here for the benefits, but she hates non-whites .... ARGH" [boom]

No no, don't they want people to "go back where they (or their parents) came from"? She probably has British parents/grandparents/great grandparents. So she would fit right in.

She probably wears Uggs in public you know, and we all know what that means.

depends where I've lived. some places you can't really integrate all that much so I would call myself an expat, mostly hang out with other foreigners, maybe live in a separate area. often religious/cultural differences make it too hard to integrate unless you marry someone from that background. Other places, people are more welcoming, you get to make real friends with people from that country, learn the language more because of it etc. even then though, I'd hardly call myself an immigrant - always passing through . what would you call an IT consultant from India on a one year placement in the UK, for example? they're hardly immigrating either

You know you have been an expat for too long when you start looking for foreigners to hang out with in your own country.

all my best friends ...

An expat is someone who fully intends to keep their original citizenship. An immigrant is simply someone from a different country who has moved into this one.

Oh - oh Morlock

You think so....?

I'm with Anna

So does that now mean that Pauline (our favourite Oxley Moron) will be an immigrant? The BNP have already offerred her membership so I have heard.

Back to the original topic, I am quite happy to refer to myself as an expat and....shock horror an antipodean!!!

It is hard to settle once you get going I find. We tried to move home to Sydney, bought a house, had a baby, got bored...

Going to try again in the summer, I give it 2 years then I am thinking New York looks like fun!

ha ha yanbu OP.
I would like the word expat better, if I had ever heard any British person in Britain refering to a non-white, British-resident foreiger as an expat. Nope, they're all immigrants, regardless of how long they stay.

But, daaahlin', do calm down. It's a valid term for someone working temporarily in a foreign country he or she has no intention of settling permanently. And for the record, it's a bloody fantastic life, don't knock it if you haven't tried it. But then again, you probably wouldn't fit in anyway....
[goes off to fix umpteenth G&T, hic]
Whilst on the subject of disliking something, gosh do I ever dislike whingers.

Pip pip

f I had ever heard any British person in Britain refering to a non-white, British-resident foreiger as an expat. Nope, they're all immigrants, regardless of how long they stay

you're missing the point. expat chinese in the UK probably use some word to describe themselves as expats - whilst we describe them as immigrants.

in china, they describe us as immigrants (ok, that's not quit what laowai means..) whislt we describe ourselves as expats...

its a matter of perspective. I can't describe myself as an immigrant. someone else can.

Why can't you describe yourself as an immigrant, edgar? See, that's why the word is so nasty, because people think it applies to foreigners, not to them. And that's my point.
Immigrant is a nasty word used to put foreigners down.

And expat is a smug word used for people of one's own nationality.

No, immigrant is used for people who have emigrated. It has an implication of permanence.

Unless you are saying you personally use it as an insulting term for foreigners? You couldn't possibly be telling us foreigners what we think could you? Cos that would be a bit racist.....

no, because it is for people in the country i have gone to call me an immigrant. to me, i am an 'expat'. the taiwanese did not describe us as expats - they called us foreginers. that was not a value judgement on their parts - just a correct description. The would, however have described a taiwanese living in london as an expat - understand now?

an immigrant = a person of another nationality in your country
an expat = a person of your nationality resident in another country

placing additional value judgements on ths is not helpful - its merely semantics.

incidentally, although you are desperately seeking to saddle me with political baggage i do not carry, i am going to disappoint you by telling you i support an open borders policy.

Interesting topic.
I have lived outside the UK for over 10 years, but I don't consider myself an 'expat' or an 'immegrant'.
In Japan I was a 'foreigner' even though I had a permanent visa, a Japanese husband, spoke fluent Japanese and all my friends were locals. My western face set me apart regardless of how intergrated I became.
Now I'm in Brussels and well into the expat community. My French isn't up to much, all my friends are other expats and I don't feel intergrated at all.
I think being an expat or not is a state of mind and an attitude to where and how you live. Personally, I would love to be as intergrated here as I was in Japan, but I can't see it ever happening.

edgar, I am not trying to saddle you with anything. Your description of the words is correct - and that's why I don't like them. You many not attach negative connotations to them, but most people who like to talk about immigrants and expats, ime, do.

try these phrases for size
"expat Australians in London" yes, heard that one
"expat Pakistanis in Blackburn" - no, never heard that one.

"Expats in Paris"
"immigrants in Paris"
I think it is extremely unlikely, that the former phrase will be used to describe slums full of Africans, or that the latter would be used to describe the stalwarts of the Anglican Church in Paris.