Am I right or an over-protective "mother of a girl" with pfb syndrome?

[petisa]

My 21 month old dd and I went to visit a friend and her two sons today, the youngest of which is also 21 months old. My dd was a bit shy at the start, but recognised them, said hello and was keen to play. Every time she picked up a toy, the younger one ran over, shouted at her and took it off her. Totally normal stuff, I hear you say.

The problem is, my friend did very little to stop this. Once or twice she intervened, but the rest of the time she ignored it and talked over my dd?s loud crying. He did the same thing constantly, for the first hour or so. My dd is used to playing with other toddlers and is usually ok, but this time she got really upset and kept crying loudly, with lots of tears.

I went over a couple of times myself and told her ds not to take things off dd, which I felt terrible about, being in my friend?s house! Was I BU to do this? I also spent a bit of time finding another ball or whatever for them to have one each and supervising their play a bit. When the shouting and taking toys off dd and her screaming and crying had gone on for an hour or so I lost my cool a bit and started to explain that dd was intimidated by my friend?s ds shouting at her. My friend said her son was annoyed by all my dd?s crying and that she thought kids should be left to sort things out for themselves.

So then I got a bit hot-faced and said I didn?t agree, that they were too young to know how to sort things out themselves and need a bit of guidance. She replied that school and life are tough and that kids have to learn to stick up for themselves, because the teacher won?t always be there to supervise and the ?nice? kids always get trampled on. I disagreed and said that parents should teach their children to treat other people nicely, and that if everyone was left to behave as they wished with no rules the dominant people would always win.

Anyway, in the end everyone calmed down and in fact dd and the boys gave each other lots of kisses before we left so it was fine. But who is BU? Am I being a pfb-ish mother-of-a-girl being cat?s bum mouthed at boisterous boys? (btw we have no problems with all the other boys dd plays with and I love boys and dd can be boisterous herself) Should I have ignored dd?s crying and told her to ?toughen up?? Was she just being melodramatic to get attention from me and should I not pander to this or was I right to acknowledge how she felt? Am I setting my dd up for being trampled over in nursery?

This is my first AIBU (gulp) so I?m scared now, but would love your opinions?

I'm an about to be mother of 3 - the first 2 very boyish boys and I would have been intervening and asking my sons to take turns in that situation.

YANBU. Learning to share and collaborate is a much more important social skill than learning to 'stick up for yourself' IMHO.

Ermm... I don't know Not having been there. I suspect that you are both right to a certain extent. It isn't OK to be unkind to other children and sharing is very important (but and a little bit of conflict is normal). On the other hand I think perhaps your DD needs to learn not to get so upset with other children or she'll be crying a lot come school age.

YANBU at all - 21 months is still too little to expect them to sort out their own battles - it's so much easier to add an occasional 'give X a turn now' or 'no don't snatch' and help tham learn how to behave towards each other, than mop up the inevitable tears and bruises when a tussle happens. FWIW, I really don't think it's a gender thing - in my gang of mates, the roughest, toughest, feistiest toddler was the most angelic looking little girl

Bit of both really. It wouldn't hurt your DD to learn to stick up for herself a bit, but on the other hand 21mths are still babies and you can't really zone out at that stage and let them get on with it because they are going to sort it out by hitting each other over the head. Which just leads to more whinging and that can be annoying.

Honestly, it does annoy me when some of the little girls I know jump straight to crying/running to mummy when they don't get their own way and then mum goes and sorts it out - it is learned helplessness and it does them no good at all. But these are much older children.

Agree sassy, not a boy thing IME.

You were a bit pfbish but i can see your point about your dd being upset.

You are both right,i have brought ds up to play nicely & share but i have also taught him to stand up for himself & not rely on grown ups to sort out toy issues.

I don't think this is a boy / girl issue, it's a toddler sharing issue. I think both boiys and girls that young would cry if toys were repeatedly removed. 21 months is too young to sort things out for themselves and I think you were right to try and intervene.

Suggest that you meet the friend and her ds in a neutral location next time, then maybe he won't be quite so possesive over the toys

of course YANBU

children need guidance. they also need to be told/shown time and time again at this age what sort of behaviour is ok and what is not. Over and over, because that's how they learn. It takes effort thought doesn't it and she obviously couldn't be arsed/was having a bad day and wanted to leave the responsibility to you

"My friend said her son was annoyed by all my dd?s crying "

That's the bit that would piss me off. She knew that, did she?

It's more of a host/guest thing than a PFB/girl thing IMO. She was the host, you were guests, so she should have been making efforts that her smaller guest was happy, eg making sure her DCs shared their toys nicely.

It's hard when a toddler goes to someone else's house and the other DCs can righteously say "mine" over everything; it needs the other parent to lay down the law a bit, which she didn't seem to do. The boot would be on the other foot at your house.

I can see both sides really.

But its definitely not a boy/girl issue.

"Nice kids get trampled on"? WTF? What a rubbish basis on which to bring up a child. Your child had been miserable for an HOUR before you asked your friend to do anything. That's a long time to let your kid have a go at another child without doing anything.

I think you did the right thing stepping in when you did and shame on your friend bringing her child up to (presumably) be one of the "not-nice" people in life who do the trampling on other people.

Well they need examples and assisted roleplaying really (ie parent intervening and explaining) to learn how to sort things out. My DS1 has an ASD so I had to work extra hard to drum the rules of polite behaviour into him so I am always at people who don't reciprocate with their neurotypical kids.

Maybe it's about time to move your meetups to a softplay or toddler group...

YANBU in my opinion because at that age they do still need guidance; your friend's approach may work better later, I don't know. I'd ask my DS to be more gentle if he was behaving as you describe and another child got upset. I think sharing can be encouraged at 21 months but tbh I don't think they really "get" the concept of fairness etc until quite a bit later (dimly recalling Penelope Leach).

However, as others have said, I believe it really isn't a gender thing, despite plenty of people deciding to view it that way. Perhaps the wee boy has learned to grab because it's the only way he gets the toys he wants, having an older sibling? Or, I don't know, maybe it's just his personality. I have seen kids of both genders do this; definitely can think of several examples of girls as well as boys.

I would stick to your approach and as your dd grows, gently encourage her to stand up for herself in an age-appropriate way and to share and be nice, and basically just hope for the best!

Actually that Penelope Leach book, Your Baby and Child, is sensible on this type of thing. Must dig it out. You could prob find at library if you like.

You are being a bit bit PFB, but until you have had 2 children, you can't know anything else.

By the time my youngest was 21 months, he and his older brother squabbled almost continually. If I had intervened constantly, they'd not have learned to settle their differences themselves, which they do now, aged 3 and 6. I also talked over loud crying, as it usually is attention seeking behavior at that age.

I kind of agree that if she doesn't toughen up a bit and not explode into tears every t9ime something doesn't go her way, she's going to struggle at nursery. That doesn't mean leaving her in a distressed sobbing heap, but instead of always intervening on her behalf, show her how to go and get another toy, or interest her in something else. Unreasonable behavior is grown out of, to some extent. Mothers who reason constantly with their children naturally feel they have reasoned them out of it, but us neglectful "I SAID NO!" mothers have watched it happen all on it's own. you can't reason with someone who isn't reasonable, and your friend probably knows that you could sit with two toddlers all day to stop them squabbling and crying and get much the same result as just talking over them.

I don't want dd to come crying to me about every little thing and I don't want her to learn it as a way of getting attention. And I definitely don't want this to be a problem for her at nursery. But it didn't feel right to ignore her crying today as she was in the other child's territory and felt quite intimidated.

My friend actually said her ds was used to grabbing toys because he has an older brother to compete with, but I felt dd should have been treated a bit differently as it wasn't her house and they weren't her toys.

He is a lovely boy, just boisterous, and I know it's totally normal for toddlers to be possessive with their toys. I just think my friend should have intervened, not constantly, but quite a bit more that she did. However, the older ds is sooo well-behaved, so she must be doing something right!!

I think she just thought it was normal for her ds to shout as she's used to all the shouting, but dd was intimidated by it. I'm sure she thought I was being silly and pfb-ish.

Surely it isn't good to teach your kids to be the first ones to grab the toy though? Or am I just deluded?

Well - UR or not, you are going to have to get used to this! It will be something that will happen time and time again - you will spend a lot of time intervening when children wont share their toys. My DD has sharing issues, i thought it was just her - but no, it seems all the children we visit are just the same.

You yourself said you that the children are too young to understand, well this wee lad probably felt terribly possesive over his toys and was worried that maybe your dd was going to take them away, like, forever and that simply wouldn't do. So whilst you might have felt hard done by, the thing to do would be to try and find your DD something else to play with.

The children who my DD gets on the best I enjoy spending time with them and their parents are those that are more like your friend in their attitude of, just let them get on with it - so long as it doesn't come to blows. Intervening all the time will mean that the children learn that if they cry and whinge when they want something the other child has then mum will come and sort it out. And so it continues........

I know its hard to swallow and i dont think YABU but i do tend to agree with the other mum - the reason i think YANBU is that i never practice what i preach and actually, i am there negotiating possession of my little pony/polly pocket ad infinitum, only to find that two minutes later, both children have lost interest in the item anyway.

YANBU, and I think that as you say, petisa, squabbles between siblings are a bit different (I have 2 boys BTW).

Your friend should have intervened.

Away from this situation, yes, you can teach your daughter phrases to say to stand up for herself "Give that back", instead of crying. But she is 21 months.

Nice kids don't get trampled on. Kids who are not given guidance become bullies and nice kids become nice adults, IMO

I have to say my friends and I have always stepped in with the snatching thing, now the children are 3 we are letting them try and sort it themselves a little more (I find it hard at times as my DD is the most gentle of the bunch so always seems to get the brunt of it)

I do hope that DD learns to stand up for herself more but at the same time her caring and sweet nature is what makes her who she is.

So my vote is YANBU, 21 months is too young imo not to step in and encourage sharing, infact I don't think a child is ever too old to be reminded of that

Friends who don't intervene in that situation are perhaps best saved for the evening when the kids aren't around.

I have a friend who I kept away from for a bit. We then both had very different second children, both more like the other's elder one. We understand each other a lot better now.

I agree the secondcoming. The other way is to offer the other child something else.

But as the parent of the host child, I'd be there too.

I used to give the DCs a pep-talk about sharing before guests came, and get them to hide anything they weren't prepared to share.

It's not a boy/girl issue and YANBU, they are toddlers, too young to sort out their own battles for themselves, they need to be shown hoe to share and sort out conflict by adults role modelling this to them.

How does this mother expect her children to learn if she doesn't show them?

Conflict resolution is something we all have a duty to teach our children. They will not just develop this skill naturally.

I think you where a bit unreasonable for having an 'argument' with your friend over it though.

At 21 mos IME they're just too young to manage this behaviour on their own. I'm all for kids sorting their own spats, but they need certain boundaries/ guidance to help them do so. 21 mos is ridiculously young to expect such a level of maturity.

YANBU.