Am I right or an over-protective "mother of a girl" with pfb syndrome?

[petisa]

My 21 month old dd and I went to visit a friend and her two sons today, the youngest of which is also 21 months old. My dd was a bit shy at the start, but recognised them, said hello and was keen to play. Every time she picked up a toy, the younger one ran over, shouted at her and took it off her. Totally normal stuff, I hear you say.

The problem is, my friend did very little to stop this. Once or twice she intervened, but the rest of the time she ignored it and talked over my dd?s loud crying. He did the same thing constantly, for the first hour or so. My dd is used to playing with other toddlers and is usually ok, but this time she got really upset and kept crying loudly, with lots of tears.

I went over a couple of times myself and told her ds not to take things off dd, which I felt terrible about, being in my friend?s house! Was I BU to do this? I also spent a bit of time finding another ball or whatever for them to have one each and supervising their play a bit. When the shouting and taking toys off dd and her screaming and crying had gone on for an hour or so I lost my cool a bit and started to explain that dd was intimidated by my friend?s ds shouting at her. My friend said her son was annoyed by all my dd?s crying and that she thought kids should be left to sort things out for themselves.

So then I got a bit hot-faced and said I didn?t agree, that they were too young to know how to sort things out themselves and need a bit of guidance. She replied that school and life are tough and that kids have to learn to stick up for themselves, because the teacher won?t always be there to supervise and the ?nice? kids always get trampled on. I disagreed and said that parents should teach their children to treat other people nicely, and that if everyone was left to behave as they wished with no rules the dominant people would always win.

Anyway, in the end everyone calmed down and in fact dd and the boys gave each other lots of kisses before we left so it was fine. But who is BU? Am I being a pfb-ish mother-of-a-girl being cat?s bum mouthed at boisterous boys? (btw we have no problems with all the other boys dd plays with and I love boys and dd can be boisterous herself) Should I have ignored dd?s crying and told her to ?toughen up?? Was she just being melodramatic to get attention from me and should I not pander to this or was I right to acknowledge how she felt? Am I setting my dd up for being trampled over in nursery?

This is my first AIBU (gulp) so I?m scared now, but would love your opinions?

Well other mother should perhaps have intervened more but what did you mean by 'lost your cool' - her comments were probably a bit extreme as she was being defensive.

I did find at this stage best to meet on neutral territory as sharing toys was generally problematic.

As a mum of a 26 month old boy, I think at that age it is important to teach sharing. There's no instinct for it IME and lots of snatching goes on. I let them get on with it up to a point, but you have to teach them social skills, that is your job as a parent. It is a tricky balance to strike.

Hovering and fighting their battles for them all the time is not right, but you have to teach them to play nicely.

yanbu

If one kid is always the one being wound up then I think it's best that an adult steps in with a word or action to calm it down. Nothing wrong with teaching turn taking at an early age and not just letting kids always scrap it out.

It's differnet for siblings. That's up to you. But if my kids were really winding up anyone else, I'd get em to sort it out pronto.

You are not being unreasonable or PFB. At this age play needs supervision from adults. That Doesn't mean constant supervision but it foes mean directing them into more positive ways of playing so they both enjoy the experience.

It is not boy behaviour or girl behaviour, it is toddler behaviour and they are too young yo sort it out for themselves.

You will see that as your DD gets older, her negotiating skills will improve.

I expect my DD yo sort out her own play disputes now - she is 5, not a baby.

Next time take the initiative and suggest a new game that they will noth enjoy. (we used to like dancing yo music in pink tutus ... The boys as well!)

YANBU one bit !!
I have 4 children and would never, never let my child of any age treat a guest,or even each other like that.I don't get all this 'fight their own battles' stuff when one is clearly being taken advantage of all the time.You have to intervene and model for them how to sort out a situation fairly and reasonably.If you don't, how are they ever going to learn anything other than the law of the jungle ?

YANBU. I have 2 boys, close together and I have a lot of time teaching them to share together. Yes they did squabble at that age but I would have always intervened if one of them had been crying like this.

On the other side, this little boy reaction is normal but again he needs to learn to share his toys too.

As for 'Life is though. She neds to stick up for herself'... Let's say it's not what I want to teach my dcs (ie the strongest rules).

YANBU and PFB at all. I have the exact problem when I go to my friends house except I have the boy and she has the girl so I don't think it is a gender issue. In my situation, my DS is just over a year younger than her DD. Her DD takes EVERYTHING my DS picks up and her mum says nothing. Sometimes she says "thats not nice DD" but doesn't take the toy back and tries to fob my DS off with something really crap, that her DD then wants as well. I tried taking a couple of DS's things as she never gets much out anyway (its like the mum doesn't want to share either, most toys are in the DDs room and my DS isn't allowed in there) but my friends DD kept taking my DSs toys and refusing to give them back and still her mum said nothing. TBH it puts me off going there as it drives me mad and I don't feel I can go into someones house and tell their child off. Its a shame as I really like my friend but her DD does seem to be a bit of a brat. Last time she had scribbled all over the flat with crayon and my friend did nothing except say "oh DD thats naughty" then let her carry on playing with the crayon, which she started drawing on her toys with. Mum still done nothing! Luckily my DS wasn't crying or anything but he did look really confused and I felt so sorry for him.

If that is how your friend is raising her sons then they will have ASBOs by the time they are 18.

YANBU

Hmm can see both sides to this one, 21 months is probably too young to sort it out themselves though but it does get bloody eshausting intervening over and over again.

I have a dd who's 3 who's prob more like the boy, I used to intervene all the time but soon realised half the time AT LEAST the other child was dissolving into tears at practically nothing and crying at the srop of a hat. E.g one time my dd stroked another girls arm, cue teras, wailing etc etc and "M did hit meeeeee!" from the other girl. She didn't and tbh this kid was so irritatingly oversensitive she needed to learn to stick up for herself a bit and dd had done NOTHING!

Now dd is 3.5 I leave them to sort out petty squabbles between themselves and only intervene if there's violence or out and out rudeness.

I think YANBU. I am inclined to agree more with your approach than hers. i think it was good that you intervened at points, as leaving it because you are embarassed is not a good example to DD. however, I do think your friend has a point and your DD will have to learn to deal with children taking her toys, and annoying her. However, sticking up for herself is not the way I woudl go - I tend to try and explain that if someone is not playing nicely, just to go and play with someone/something else. It's not worth getting in a tizz about. also, the crying could indeed be annoying to others (my DD is a bit prone to whining, and it really does get your goat after a while)

so you were both right, but you need to choose how you want her to handle situations like that again. Fighting back is just one way to deal with it.

Don't fall out with friends over it though. It's hard enough being a mum without ostricising (sp?) yourself.

I think you're both right. I think she is right that your DD will have to learn to look after herself, and to stick up for herself - (But note, that does not equate to fighting back or hitting or any other abusive method to get her own way. She just needs to be verbally assertive enough to be able to stand her own ground. I also think in school, children do need to be able to do that.) I have taught my children to stand up for themseleves. So for example, if my DD is hit she will say to someone, "Don't do that, its not very nice". Something my DDs class teacher praised her for at parents' evening last night (proud emoticon!)

That said, I think 21 months is far too young to even be thinking about going down that route. They cannot rationalise or think through at this age, they cannot learn techniques to help them manage the world. So,there I think you are right. At 2, toddlers act without thinking and they have got to be taught to share, just like I believe they have also got be taught to be self reliant and to be able to manage such situations.

Next time you go over, I'd take a bag of your DDs toys with you, so she can always play with her stuff and then the little boy might feel happier.

I have a DD and a DS and both displayed this behaviour at this age. I can see her point but am on your side on this one. As a 21 month old cannot reason how can they sort it out for themselves?

However, as shes your friend you will haver to accept she has different ideas to you. You either stop seeing her with DC or go somewhere where there are fewer opportunuites for falling out. I have a friend whose DD just doesnt get on with my DD. Shame as I really like the mum. We both recognise the problem and instead go on day trips where their personality differences aren't so apparent.

Wow, I'm getting a lot of very good, sensible advice here, so thank you! And I'm glad you've practically all said that it's not a gender issue - I don't want to be an overprotective mother of my "darling daughter". I do actually know a couple of boys my dd's age who would have been shier and more upset in that situation.

Morloth - that's something I do want to avoid - learned helplessness.

Dorothea - I'll definitely look up that book, thank you!

By "I lost my cool a bit" I meant that I just went a bit red-faced and said that I was sorry dd was crying so much but that she was a bit intimidated by her ds's shouting and taking all the toys, and that normally she's fine with other toddlers and I'd never seen her get so upset. I felt like a tit having a "discussion" about it, but then I wouldn't have found out her pov otherwise. I did really want to leave at one stage, but calmed down when we changed the subject.

Things ended very well between all of us, so I guess she wasn't that put out. I'll still take dd round to see them, but I'll heed all your great advice for future visits and if it gets too much we'll just meet at the park for a while.

YANBU. 21 months old is too young for the rough and tumble. Toddlers and older children need adults to step in and teach the children to be civilised. You friends point of view would lead to anarchy. Didn't she read Lord of the Flies ffs.

Lol, I was thinking "Isn't that a bit Lord of the Flies?" when she said it.