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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

or is it just sour grapes? (bit of an epic -sorry)

53 replies

igivein · 09/02/2010 11:59

Had ds registered to start at an independant school in reception in September. At the start of this school year I contacted the school and asked if there was anything I needed to be doing to prepare him, they said no,and that he'd be invited to come and spend a day in their nursery prior to starting.
I got a letter a couple of weeks back asking me to arrange for him to come in to the nursery to 'meet the children he will be starting reception with' (he's currently attending my workplace nursery which I'm more than happy with). I ring and make arrangements, and am told that he'll need wellies, fruit snack etc, I should settle him and then leave him, and that I'll be seeing the head teacher for a chat to give me a chance to ask any questions.
Anyhow, on the appointed day I drop him off, he runs in and starts playing, I give him a kiss and tell him to have fun. A couple of hours later I go back to pick him up, & he tells me he really likes it and it's been fun.
Then the head arrives with a sheaf of papers, which are the assessments they've done on him. I was a bit gobsmacked because there had been no mention of assessment.
She tells me that he's done really well at numeracy,colour and shape recognition,and that he's really articulate with 'super' social skills, but that she's really concerned about his literacy as he only recognizes one letter (the one his name starts with), and he should be much further on by this point (he's not quite three and a half). She says she'll reassess him in four weeks, but if he hasn't made significant progress by then she won't be able to accept him into the school, as he'd struggle too much and it wouldn't be fair on him.
I left in a complete daze, alternately furious that they'd assessed him without my knowledge or consent and upset that he's lagging so far behind his peers.
I contacted his nursery who said of course he wouldn't recognise letters, as they are using the 'letters and sounds' pack that is recommended by the government, and that the local LEA had told its nurseries that they shouldn't do any letter recognition or phonics, as that was for schools to teach in reception.
His keyworker was appalled at how he'd been treated, and told me he's not behind at all, in fact he's ahead of a lot of his peers. She spent an hour going through all the assessments they've done with him, and he does indeed appear to be ahead of the game. She said they've got all the Jolly Phonics resources at the nursery, but don't use them because the LEA said not to. She's drawn up a learning plan for him and started doing Jolly Phonics one to one with him, and he's picking it up really quickly, so he'd probably pass the reassessment with flying colours.
But we chose this school because it's quite small and presents itself as having an inclusive family atmosphere where pupils are encouraged to 'have a go'. When we went to look around it was all about allowing the child to develop at their own pace, producing well rounded individuals and not just about academic excellence. Although they did say that with class sizes no bigger than twelve it was fairly easy to 'bring them on' academically.
I do have concerns about him, because he's a late August baby, and will only be 4 and a few days when he starts reception, and I had hoped that this school would help him get over the 'handicap' of being so much younger than a lot of his peers, because they'd be able to give him extra attention.
My question is, am I being unreasonable in thinking this probably isn't the school for my son, or is it sour grapes because they said he wasn't up to scratch?
Thanks if you managed to get this far!

OP posts:
FabIsGoingToBeFabIn2010 · 09/02/2010 12:04

I honestly don't think you sound like you have sour grapes. I think the school sounds awful. He is just a baby fgs!

My dd was also 4 and 1 month when she started reception and it wasn't as awful as I thought it would be as she was reading from 2 1/2 but that in itself has problems.

I think I would be asking for a meeting without your son with the head and ask her how she reconciles the school saying they go at the child's pace with they can't accept him as he can't do XYZ by a certain date. Maybe take the nursery's accessment but I would be looking for another school tbh.

ConnorTraceptive · 09/02/2010 12:09

I don't think it's sour grapes either. DS didn't recognise any letters when he started reception last september at 4.6 years old.

GuntherMcKilocodie · 09/02/2010 12:09

I'm biased on this one. I went to a public school (very small) from the age of four until 18. I was fine because I was academic, but I watched a lot of my peers struggle academically and they were given no extra support whatsoever.
I recognise that this was a long time ago, but it really does ring alarm bells for me when children are assessed academically at such a young age. I teach primary in a lovely inner city school, and the children really do develop at such different rates, especially boys. Do you really want to expose your child to this sort of selective assessment at such an early age?

foreverastudent · 09/02/2010 12:10

I think they should have taken into account that he is almost a year younger than some of the othere who will be starting reception with him. Of course a 3 1/2 year old will not be as far on as a 4 1/2 year old!

They should have told you he would be assessed but probably didn't want him to be tutored for it.

A school is a long term investment and if you're having doubts about this one at this early stage you should maybe try shopping around again before he's actually started.

catwalker · 09/02/2010 12:20

It makes me very angry that children are pushed to read so early. I wouldn't pay to have my child educated at a school that thinks there's anything odd about a 3.5 year old not recognising letters. I have a 13 year old who has a September birthday and I remember mentioning to his teacher during his first term in year 1 (so he would have been SIX) that I was worried because he just didn't 'get' reading. She just told me not to worry and that he would get there. By the end of primary school he was the best in his year at maths, literacy and science and is currently in top sets for all 3 subjects at his grammar school.

He also has a brother who was reading fluently by the age of 3! Children learn at different rates. Look for another school.

taffetacat · 09/02/2010 12:22

I guess it depends what sort of schooling you want for your DS. It sounds like this school is very academically focused.

For me, a rounded education is very important, not just the academic side. I went both private and state in this country and the States, and was quite shocked at the differences both within this country and abroad. I assumed that just because education was free, it wasn't as good, which IME, turned out to be very wrong.

For me, I am lucky to have an excellent local primary which has a very holistic view on the child's development. This is what is important to me and where I think my DC will thrive.

If I were you, I would check out the alternatives and do some formal option selection based on criteria you think best for your DS.

igivein · 09/02/2010 12:22

Thanks for your answers. He is my pfb and only, and I just want the best for him. Have researched state schools and found one with only eighty kids, mainly ones and some twos on ofsted. I rang and spoke to the head,who knew the names and family backgrounds of the kids in his school from my village, and also remembered ones who'd now left. I thought this was a good sign.
The state school doesn't have the same level of extracurricular activities available, but as dh said, the school fees would pay for a hell of a lot of music lessons or whatever.
I'm going in to see the school on Friday. So, all-knowing mumsnetters, seeing as how I seem to have made a spectacular hash of my first choice, what sort of things should I be looking for?

OP posts:
givecarrotsachance · 09/02/2010 12:28

I went to an indie primary and they prided themselves on being able to teach ANY child, bringing out the best that they could be, irrespective of ability, even though they were "able to choose", being private. That's what I looked for in a school.

That said, I am absolutely shocked that they say that your son isn't up to scratch. At his age, mine knew some letters, but not many, and obviously yours is advanced in many other ways so the school should be pleased to have him. Mine is now 5.5 and is reading words well, starting from roughly the same level as yours - and he's doing much better than most of his class so saying that your son is behind is utter rubbish.

I would run a mile from this school AND complain to OFSTED about what happened.

GuntherMcKilocodie · 09/02/2010 12:30

Don't pay much attention to Ofsted. Go with your gut instincts. Do the children seem happy and on task? Look at displays-do they show a range of work from different abilities? Ask questions about pastoral care. Think about what is important for you and your son in a school. For example if you want a creative environment do the school bring in outside artists/storytellers etc. What out of school clubs do they offer?

skidoodle · 09/02/2010 12:30

"I wouldn't pay to have my child educated at a school that thinks there's anything odd about a 3.5 year old not recognising letters."

Me neither.

Why should any child that hasn't started school yet be able to recognise letters?

Some will, some won't. My DD can recognise a few (O for Optopus, E for Eftefant etc) because she is interested in them for some reason (who can reason the mind of a toddler?) but I'm sure there are other things she is not doing that other kids her age do.

A school that would let a child get "left behind" in a reception class is a shit school.

I can quite see why you're angry about the assessment without your knowledge, but I think your son did really well from the sounds of it. I'd far rather my DD had "super social skills" when she is three than know all her letters.

DaftApeth · 09/02/2010 12:33

Don't most nurseries talk about letters and sounds in the year before school? At the nursery my dcs attended they had a different letter per week and talked about the letters/sounds that each child's name started with and the number of letters in each child's name, etc.

Both of mine go/went to a fairly academic school (ds has just left, dd in Reception) but even with the expected good results, they did not assess before offering places and had no expectations of skills on entry.

Perhaps have a discussion with the Head, saying that you were surprised about the assessment, as you were not aware that the school was slective. Highlight that the nursery has not done any work on sounds so that the fact that he does not recognise many does not necessarily suggest that he would have difficulty learning them.

Meanhile, look at other schools in case you decide that you are not happy with this school's approach.

Vallhala · 09/02/2010 12:33

It doesn't sound like sour grapes at all but that doesn't mean that the school are in the wrong or should be written off. They merely have a different way of working and expectations to the state sector, it just seems to me that you weren't aware of them. IME many independents assess as this one did - it would doubtless surprise the school that you were surprised.

That they don't educate to government direction/the NC is a big reason why many people opt for such schools. Blunty, just because the govt/LA authorises/rejects something doesn't mean that they're right. Look at the state of their own schools! I would far rather an academically inclined independent, with all that the future holds without the constraints of the NC, if this was my son - how do you feel about the long term?

That you've said that your DS will probably pass the re-assessment with flying colours indicates to me that you should have no reason to be concerned.

llareggub · 09/02/2010 12:36

As for what to look for in a school, I am a true believer in looking past the head, the teachers and the glossy brochures. I like to look at the children and observe how they seem to be at school.

I used to go to a playgroup in a school and I'd see the older children walking around looking miserable and subdued. I couldn't send my DS there, even though Ofsted have rated it as outstanding. I just don't see it!

duchesse · 09/02/2010 12:39

Don't send him there. Trust me. It won't be right for him if they're like that before he's even started there. Their loss.

Romanarama · 09/02/2010 12:42

How peculiar!! 3yos don't have to go to school at all, why on Earth should they know their letters?

If he was advanced in all the other assessments then I'd say it should be pretty obvious to a teacher that he'll learn his letters quickly when someone starts teaching them to him.

babybarrister · 09/02/2010 12:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Vallhala · 09/02/2010 12:49

Different strokes Roman. Neither of my two attended nursery. Both knew their letters by just gone 3 (not their only skill, honest, babyb!). This was just something they learned at home with me as they played, it wasn't a case of my daughters being ultra-bright, just a matter of how they were brought up - I was their nursery teacher, if you like.

igivein · 09/02/2010 12:51

Vallhala, the reason I was surprised at the assessment was because I had twice been told by the school that he was coming just to 'meet the rest of the class'. I work in education (at the 'other end' of the system at University) and would never expect anyone to sit an exam without being aware of the syllabus they were to be examined against.
I'm far from starry-eyed about government dictats and LEAs, hence my looking at independant schools for ds, but having been to see the early years lecturers at work, current thinking is that getting children (especially boys)to read too early can be counterproductive, and leads to them becoming disinterested.
I would hope that the head of an indie school should be well up on research in their field.
I've read this back and it reads borderline stroppy - I don't mean to to be, but don't know how else to word it.

OP posts:
Romanarama · 09/02/2010 13:11

Valhalla 2 of mine knew all their letters and numbers by 20months and the other one didn't. That's not the point. My point was that it's very strange to assess a 3yo as very advanced in lots of things but to get huffy about the fact that he doesn't know his letters. He might well know something else that he finds similar: eg my ds1 was amazingly well-versed in makes and models of cars at 3. The op's son might have all kinds of different talents. If knowing letters was an entry test then the school should have made the OP aware so that she could try to teach them to him and to see whether or not he was competent to learn them. Otherwise it just doesn't prove anything.

Anyway, very odd to think you have your child registered for a school and then to find out by surprise that he's had an exam that you didn't know anything about and he might not be able to go there after all. I'd be furious.

diddl · 09/02/2010 13:29

Sorry OP,but if they are oversubscribed then they will obviously have a selection process.

I would be a bit about a school that wants the child to know what imo they should be teaching before the child starts iyswim.

My concern would be that they are more interested in appearances re grades etc rather than the welfare of your child.

And just an aside-my children didn´t know their letters when they started school at 6.

Kindergarten here was more about socialising & being ready for the routine of school.

igivein · 09/02/2010 13:53

Diddl, they didn't mention any sort of selection process two years ago when they relieved me of cash to reserve a place for him!

OP posts:
diddl · 09/02/2010 13:58

So the place is only reserved if he "passes" to get in?

Sounds like a big con!

mnistooaddictive · 09/02/2010 14:03

I would say you have had a lucky escape and learn from it. If they are this obsessed by assessments now then it will continue during his time there.
They are clearly driven by exam results and to get these they have to have the right callibre of children presumably.
Send him to the other school you mentioned.

SeaTrek · 09/02/2010 14:11

I would not want my son to attend that school. It sounds awful!

My son knew all his letter SOUNDS at that age but no way did he know their names. He wasn't consistent with that until five! It just means nothing at all. He is 5.5 now and reads really well (reading age approx 8) and could read well before he knew their names (I just didn't bother teaching him them until it was time to do spellings - sounds are way more important).

From what you have said about his other skills, I have no doubt that he could make significant progress in that time. I would teach him them, let him get accepted and then reject them.

igivein · 09/02/2010 14:14

Thanks for all your responses. I think I need to find a different school - hope the one I'm seeing on Friday is ok!

OP posts: