to not believe in God?

[slightlystressed]

No Bashing allowed!

I don't believe in God, never have and short of a miracle never will.

I don't even believe in "something out there" as some people like to put it.

It just seems physically impossible. Everything around me can be put down to science, can't it?

Do you believe in God? And what are your reasons? And if you do, what is God? Is God an it a He or a She?

SGB True, however I quite like my comfort blanket. Doesn't harm anyone else and gives me more strength when things go wrong.

I can't stand organised religion, or the idea of good vs evil though.

I never understand why anyone can accept 'the universe was created by God' as an answer to the origins of the universe/life. Surely, if that were the case, the question just becomes 'how was God created?'

But whiteflame it comes back to first there was nothing and then it exploded as an alternative. All the whole hot tense state thing - but what came before that?

As for god, energy is matter and matter is energy. Think about how much energy the human race has pumped into belief over the years. Gods can be created imnsho.

IsCloserToEdgaryCayceForABeliefSystemThanMostTiggaxx

Tigga, you is a bit woo, innit?

'But the main purpose of religion remains social control, a way of keeping the many obedient to the few by threatening them with the cult leader's Imaginary Friend who will get Vewy Cwoss if the cult leader doesn't get his arse kissed regularly.'

Yawn.

If I were being socially obedient I'd be a raging atheist, as that's what New Labour would like. Someone who thinks the state is everything and the material the be-all.

tigga, the difference is this:

Science says that their best guess, that fits the evidence found so far, is that first there was nothing and then it exploded. Scientists acknowledge this is a bit lame and so are actively looking for evidence of this, endlessly coming up with ideas for how it happened (eg, brane theory), and are daily striving to push back the boundaries of ignorance.

Abrahamic religions say that God Did It. And you're not really supposed to ask too many questions about where God came from or why He did it.

Snorbs but I don't follow an Abrahamic religion. INMSHO Abrahmic religions follow Zoastrian traditions anyway.

RebelEvenAmongstPagan'sTiggaxx

Too true Abride.

ellokitty thats interesting as I had the opposite experience.

I went into a related degree (religious studies and philosophy ) a confirmed humanist;came out with faith. A broadly Christian one but with universalist tendencies.

I thinkmost peoplecame out with a faith,though I would say they tended to have adopted a lessprescribed tone that the ones peoplewent in with- people were embracing meditation and similar, for example.

YY about Zoroastrianism.

However social control theories tend to forget the outposts of Christianity such as Quakerism. My Quaker-istic (ie I believe but can't attend the meeting as they can't take children due to hall rules) demands that I stand up to authority and fight for the rights of the needy and oppressed, that is not social control.

A lot of the arguments against afith appertain to a set of formalised, Church absed, human led faiths that seem to afdress themselves as much to their own benefit as worship and compassion.

Ooooo Im reading ' The God delusion ' or was as I have to concentrate on ' The Hypno birthing ' more at the moment.... but from the start, it's very interesting indeed !

interesting ellokitty and Peachy - I also did theology (not long finished) and went in a Good Little Evangelical, came out a Wooly Liberal and loving it!

My (evangelical) Bible College friends are not quite so pleased when I talk loudly about the fact that I am "post-evangelical". In fact it really winds them up

The difference between science and religion is this:

Scientists propose theories and then test them. Sometimes the theory has to be modified or discarded because the evidence doesn't support it.

In religion you have to have 'faith'.

However they are both human constructs used in order to explain the universe that we inhabit.

I prefer evidence to faith.

I fully uphold the right for people to worship as they want/to have faith and I think it's a lazy atheist who belittles/disrespects other peoples belief systems. However, if, in our schools, creationism/ID were presented as serious 'scientific' competing theories to the theory of evolution I'd be out on the streets rioting

Weegie I garduated in 2008, and I miss it a lot but it as never going to pay the bills.

Wooly Liberal is an excellent stance IMO. And you know,frommy own experience etc,apart from the theistic bit isnot sodifferent from Humanism. Same woman,different concept of supreme existence is all.

It doesn't matter if you are a beleiver in God,Noddy or yes the FSM if you are a decent human being who values tolerance and love.If you'renot that however, sticking the palster of a major religion above it won't change anything either.

lowenergy- I agree, in fact our Infants did try it on WRT to creationism and I was in there.As a Christian. It just is not appropriate.

We also had a book snethome that went on andon about dark being bad, stay away from the dark etc and (after running it by MN,was many years ago now) Ikicked off about that as well as it seemed bloody raicst tbh.

I can't do organsied or orthodox. But I don't have a choice about my faith- it is either there as asense of absolute or not. When the boys were being diagnosed with their ASD I was very angry and tried so ahrdtostepaway from it- what sort of God would it have to be, after all. I just can't not beleive. It'snot bred in either-my aprents make SGB look happy clappy I can tellyou!.

Talk about starting a thread just to stir things up. You don't believe in god? and we're surpose to give a shit because.....?

No, theology will never pay the bills for me either! I did it out of interest, and at least now I have a nice collection of Moltmann books to read again when I feel the need to dip my toe into the theological sea.

And I'm still rather taken with the Latin American Liberation Theologians - those guys are real!

Mine was supposed tolead toteaching before the ASD came into our lives.C'est la vie.

OPur studies were a bit different as we obviously coverd morefaiths,Ithought about an MA in Buddhism but ended up focussing on slavery and faith aspects. Typical Peachy, finds a cause and sticks to it LOL.

memoo If you read the thread you'll see that quite a few people and are quite happy to explain their reasons why they do or dont believe, without getting into a full blown slanging match. Asking if you believe in God is not stirring things up, it can be an interesting debate can't it?

how come ellokitty?

I think probably because I did a straight theology degree, and to get a 2i, you had to be very critical of religion. My friends who kept their faith never got above a 2ii.

We did lots of Biblical study, and of course that unpicked everything I had been taught to believe - Moses didn't write the Bible, It was the 4 OT types of writers, Genesis 1 and 2 were written by different authors, and have different accounts of creation, almost all mesopotamian myths have some kind of flood story, Paul only wrote 1/3 of the Pauline books. Added in the Hermeneutics lessons which then showed how each little bit of the Bible could be related to a social need in Israel at the time and so on... Oh, and the study of the 'other' gospels (Thomas, Mary etc) which give a quite different picture of Jesus at times. Constant questioning / undermining of the things I had believed to be true.

Then there was the Church Doctrine and History lessons which showed how so many of Christian beliefs actually come from Greek philosophy and are not really Biblical ideas at all, then there were lessons tracing how these ideas have developed over the course of history, and how the church has not always believed that.

Then there were the philosophy lessons, which again did the whole evil thing, how can we justify God saving one man in a miracle when he lets Auschwitz happen and so on...

I also did some modules, on sociology and psychology of religion (we had the Alistair Hardy research centre at my college, so lots on religious experiences and how they are probably not real...)

So basically, it was just three years of constant chipping away at things you once believed to be true, added in to the teenage existential angst that so many of us went through anyway, that many people just could not reconcile the questions they were asked at college and their faith. I wasn't at a Bible college either, so there wasn't the underlying belief in the Bible either. Many of the lecturers were atheists, even some of the reverends I think!

Sorry for the long answer Miss woowoo - but you did ask

Please excuse typos / spellings - I'm supposed to be exam marking, so in a bit of a hurry!

Intersting Ello

Wehave similar backgrounds academically- I combined my RE degreewith Psychology and have done sociology but the one thing I didn't have that you did was any set ideas of who did what, I was raised Atheist and just developed a notion of an'other'. So whilst I also got a2:1, being critical wasn't difficult (apparently it is for many Muslim students when they do that faith, and I know the only really devour mainstream Christian struggled)- I can very easily separate my belief from established Church based faith IYSWIM.

I suppose I have a strong guide in what I believe Jesus taught, but my concept of God probably is more Brahmanical than OT the sense of the other / consciousness. Which obviously is why CofW doesn't work for me LOL.

Ah, Peachy and I are very similar. I did a religious studies/psychology degree with a minor in philosophy (I was a very busy little girl). I went in a born and brought up Catholic who hadn't really ever thought too hard about faith and came out a confirmed athiest.

If you look at the world's religions, you can see that the general tenants are all more or less the same. - Do no evil, be nice to each other, look after those less able etc. But I have a problem with these being called 'Christian' values because they are also Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and Athiest virtues as well. Perhaps they are best described as the basic laws needed for successful human societies.

MillyR makes a good point about spirituality. There is increasing evidence that religion is hardwired into the human brain possibly as a by product of the brain's tendency to see patterns even where no pattern exists e.g. clouds. There is also evidence that a significant section of the population lack the hardwiring to sense "the other". I've seen it demonstrated. A gentle electric current is passed through the temporal lobe and, fo aabout 60% of the population, they feel a presence nearby. This is one possible explanation for ghosts and possibly why some people ar more sensitive to 'paranormal' activity than others. On the other hand, a large section of the population are completely impervious to the effect. These tend also to be those people who describe themselves as Agnostic, Athiest or culturally rather than spiritually religious.

I am one of those people. I can't, at a visceral level, experience religion. I can understand, agree with, and subscribe to the basic moral tenants, but it's like an outsider looking in. I can understand how religious experience gives comfort to individuals. If you've ever had a hallucination you'll know what I mean, it can seem so real even when later you realise it wasn't. And to all intents and purposes, when you are experiencing one it is real, and the emotions are valid and real too.

So without wanting to offend anyone with genuinely held religious beliefs, I understand, I have sympathy with your beliefs, but spirituality will always be akin to a hallucination to me.