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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not believe in God?

117 replies

slightlystressed · 04/02/2010 16:17

No Bashing allowed!

I don't believe in God, never have and short of a miracle never will.

I don't even believe in "something out there" as some people like to put it.

It just seems physically impossible. Everything around me can be put down to science, can't it?

Do you believe in God? And what are your reasons? And if you do, what is God? Is God an it a He or a She?

OP posts:
nickytwotimes · 04/02/2010 16:35

Yanbu at all.

Free will and all that.

I do.

TheSugarPlumFairy · 04/02/2010 16:36

confirmed humanist here, married to an obnoxiously vocal confirmed humanist.

I dont need a beardy wierdy sky fairy to give me a moral compass or to soothe my grief or to explain my place in the world.

I do however find the whole concept of religion as an evolutionary psychological adaption absolutely facinating and if i had my time again at Uni and a trust fund to keep me fed i think i would actually go and do that post grad thesis i planned on the subject.

Kaloki · 04/02/2010 16:36

"Apart from the fact that the majority of wars are caused by religion"

I think it has some influence, but I think it is more motivated by money and land, usually then under the guise of religion to give it more righteous power.

alexpolismum · 04/02/2010 16:37

exactly, pooexplosions. Evolution made giving birth painful. Surely an intelligent design would have been able to foresee that? Anyway, it was intended as a lighthearted post.

slightlystressed · 04/02/2010 16:38

If god does refer then surely he would have needed to think "I know I'll create a planet that can support life and see how it goes from there"

So if he had to think this then surely he has a brain so surely he must be physical? So where is he now.

This is one of the reasons I dont believe!

OP posts:
pooexplosions · 04/02/2010 16:38

Wars aren't caused by religion, but people. if there was no religion, people would find something else to fight about. Money, oil, hair colour, whatever.

MrsC2010 · 04/02/2010 16:40

Money and power also have a part to play in that methinks Chickens...though I see your point.

slightlystressed · 04/02/2010 16:41

Blu/Kaloki
I'm not belittling people who believe in God. Am genuinly interested on their thoughts of why they believe.

OP posts:
weegiemum · 04/02/2010 16:41

I suppose I think of the person of Jesus, as that is the human face of God to me, and makes Him more approachable - on a human level.

I also have a degree in Theology so can spout loads of stuff about God being beyond gender, neither male nor female, three Persons, one substance etc .... but that's all academic theological talk which I find very interesting, but I don't think that that's why most people believe - academic points are worthless in those terms I think.

I do think everything around us can be explained by science - my first degree was in Geography, where I also did Geology, Palaeontology etc and I drive the rest of my church (and my college) crazy by being all sciency on them ....

However I think that there is something/someone which/who transcends science, and all human understanding.

Interestingly, I wish I could remember where I read that more physicists are religious than biologists, cos the more physics we understand, the more we find we just can't explain.

SerenityNowakaBleh · 04/02/2010 16:42

Yeah, I find the "religion causes wars" thing a bit of a weak argument. Arguably, nationalism and patriotism causes wars. Look at WW2 - the result of national conflict; very little if any religious stuff going on. Same with WW1, most of the Balkan Conflicts, all those wars of independence (US, for e.g.).

Hullygully · 04/02/2010 16:44

Thank you, Weegiemum.

What does your Jesus look like?

Itsjustafleshwound · 04/02/2010 16:44

I don'tr think there is any overwhelming evidence to prove/disprove the existance of a god.

I am a Christian, because being one and living like one helps me and my family cope with the stresses, strains and moral abiguities that exist in the modern world ..

Kaloki · 04/02/2010 16:45

slightlystressed I never thought you were Was just saying.

pooexplosions · 04/02/2010 16:45

Well many intelligent designers believe that the god figure started the process but then was uninvolved in the evolutionary process, explaining both neatly.
There are many arguments used to prove the existence of a god figure, the 5 central ones have been around for a thousand years, but its not something that can be proved or disproved at all, the concepts are too big and too loose to even talk properly between beleievers and non bel.
And proof is contrary to faith, and religion without faith is just play acting.

dawntigga · 04/02/2010 16:52

slightlystressed I'm Pagan and you are NBU. I see religion as a stained glass window, some of us see this and others see that. Some people see themselves reflected. The only people who see the whole thing are people like Jesus and Bhudda or they go stark raving bonkers. We don't have a very good track record for people who see the whole thing.

It'sTotallyUpToYouWhatYouBelieveTiggaxx

catinthehat2 · 04/02/2010 16:52

Something I read on a rather fascinating blog recently which is worth repeating (as I simply don't write this well). It might be too long and difficult for SS to understand however.

'Our recent spat with Professor Dawkins and his followers put me in mind of a famous observation of the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein that there are some things that cannot be explained - only shown.

He illustrated the point, with reference to a picture that could be either a duck or a rabbit, but the famous illusion of the old/woman/ young woman serves equally as well.

In a curious way this has a relevance to the old Christian teaching that God has revealed himself in two ways, Scripture and Nature, and it was this thinking that enabled the Church and its clergy to have played such a major role in the development of science. If God had revealed himself in the created order, then plants and creatures could be examined for what secrets they held of their Creator.

Yet anyone coming across such a picture for the first time is presented with a conundrum. What is depicted? Some may only see the Old Woman, others the Younger One. Most can see both, flipping between the two, whilst being unable to explain exactly how their interpretation changes. The image does not change, nor the eye, nor the brain that makes sense of the image.

Most Christians can see both. They can understand Scripture and Nature and do not insist on the irreconcilability of both. A few only see the one and of course Professor Dawkins and his crew only have a one dimensional answer to the evidence before them.

It is for this reason that they shout, abuse and get angry. Do not be under any illusion yourself; you cannot persuade them. If they cannot see it, then we just have to accept they cannot see it. They don?t want to, and shouting and getting angry must be very personally rewarding. A sense of superiority is a very comforting thing when there is nothing else to validate your existence.

So they deny that which they cannot see, and they call you ?stupid? ?illogical? ?naive? , and they dignify themselves with the self congratulatory title of ?Brights?.

?It?s and Old Woman everyone can see that. Even some of you can see its an Old Woman - so why deny that which is plainly before your own eyes??

Yet some of us do continue to see the alternative. We know that the skill and vision of the Creator was greater than our critics are able to perceive, and we can only wait and hope that if they scale down the anger, the penny may drop for them just as it did for us.

Yet there is an almost comic (or do I mean cosmic?) irony in all this.

The same folk who insist upon the impossibility of reconciling the scientific and the theological, the physical and the spiritual, are also the ones who point us to the world of the particle physicist who routinely works in a near metaphysical world in which photons are in two places at the same time and the story is continuing to get ?curiouser and curiouser.?

The religiously scientific are able to think in such ways. Like Alice?s Queen we can indeed sometimes ?believe six impossible things before Breakfast? but that is because the more we learn of the complex topsy turvy world which we inhabit, the more we become lost in wonder at the outworkings of our Awesome God.

I fear it is the ? Brights? who are somewhat dim in this expanding universe of the mind and spirit. We can only smile and enjoy the irony that they appear to be the ones stuck in a rut of 19th Century Darwinian thinking that is fast being left behind.'

pooexplosions · 04/02/2010 16:54

Thats just veiled nastiness against their opposition, no different to the ones they are attcking, though they couch it well.

Hullygully · 04/02/2010 16:54

Only if you accept the premise that "God" revealed himself in nature and scripture, of course.

BethNoireNewNameForPeachy · 04/02/2010 16:58

YANBU

Its up to you what you beleive. now if enacting your beliefs had ramificatiosn that broke any laws that would stop being the case but other than that....

I beleive in God,I am not sure I have a choice TBH- i'vehad doubts and soul searching and all the rest. But I feel that there is something, though not so much formewithin churches or formalised faith- I find it in peace and contemplation.

Each to their (non harmful) own.

abride · 04/02/2010 17:02

'I think of the Church, esp. the Catholic church, to be particularly evil.'

We're not the ones turning our teenagers into suicide bombers and preaching Holy War.

We're not the Creationists.

Why do you think of us as being particularly evil? Does that include my elderly mother: a former nurse, who spends her retirement helping others through various charities? Does that include Cathod: one of the most respected charities working in the world's poorest areas?

LynetteScavo · 04/02/2010 17:03

YANBU not to belive in God....I do, but that's because I can feel Gods precence - I can feel my gurdians Angels at all times, so I figure there must be a God if there are Angels. God isn't a she or a he, but just something else, I'm not sure what....more of a feeling.

I do think there is a general human need to belive in something greater, as worshiping God/s of somekind can be found in all cultures, as far as I know.

I do find it hard to undrestand how a woman can be pf, and have a baby without feeling there is some sort of God, but I that's just my personal view.

I do find refering to God as an "imaginary friend" a little offensive. To me God is not something that I have imagined, or someone/something I talk to, just something I can feel.

ItsGraceAgain · 04/02/2010 17:06

For me, it's a non-argument. There are things we know to be true, but can't begin to explain - like how paired particles can do exactly the same as each other, however far apart they are. So I think it's as unreasonable to say there is no 'God' as to say there is no quantum physics.

Coming over all philosophical, you could say the particles are joined by an invisible, un-measurable, unknown force. Which is pretty much what 'God's supposed to be, innit? I do think all the bearded/thunderous/many-armed/cloven-hoofed (etc) representations of 'God' are just superstition. And, if I ever need to refer to 'God', I usually call it "she".

Bloody hell. I'm all deeped-out for the day

abride · 04/02/2010 17:07

I think you're on to something there, ItsGraceAgain. Quantum physics may hold the answer. The particles being joined even though they're apart is something I find fascinating.

LynetteScavo · 04/02/2010 17:09

I don,t belive in the devil, though. No imaginary enemy's here.

sfxmum · 04/02/2010 17:11

quite reasonable imo